Winter Losses

[eddiespangle]

I did a walk-by of my apiary today and noticed a suspiciously inactive hive. Unfortunately they’d succumbed to winter’s hardships. I’d been worried about this colony since the summer. It was a split that never really got well established and I agonised about uniting them with a strong colony in Sep. Food wasn’t a problem – fed them candy a few weeks ago and there was plenty left.

There were only about a tea cup full worker bodies in the hive today – so I guess they never generated sufficient mass to keep a cluster warm enough to make it through the winter. It must have been this week’s cold snap that finally finished them off, workers were emerging form their cells.

Really sad.

 

[RoseCottage]

Bad luck and commiserations. I guess many of us have a colony in a similar position...you won't be alone this year I feel,
All the best,
Sam

 

[For want of a better word]

Win some.... loose some... give some away....
I hope that I will have successfully got mine through to the Spring.... and I hope some very nice beekeeperer out there is going to give me some nice AMM queens to increase the stocks.. so I can repay the favor and pass them on!

Hope your nucs blossom!

Good Luck !

 

[rink123]

That is so sad, But like Rose Cottage says winter is not over yet

 

[iand]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. I now try to be strong even ruthless and shake out or unite as need be, but you just can't help being hopeful that they will make it through OK. So I guess there will always be some that don't quite make it.
Earlier/bigger splits stand a better chance in the build up to winter, better luck next year.

 

[user 819]

I’d been worried about this colony since the summer. It was a split that never really got well established and I agonised about uniting them with a strong colony in Sep.

This is farely typical of beeks who expect a week colony to servive the rigours of over wintering and its still only January !!!! You have only got yourself to blame, its just sheer stupidity. How others can say its sad or its bad luck its nothing short of ridiculous.

 

[JamezF]

It's the understanding and supportiveness of this forum that I really like. That and the unfailing good advice when you get something wrong.

James

 

[The Cumbrian]

It's the understanding and supportiveness of this forum that I really like.
James

 

[the naked beekeeper]

I’d been worried about this colony since the summer. It was a split that never really got well established and I agonised about uniting them with a strong colony in Sep.

This is farely typical of beeks who expect a week colony to servive the rigours of over wintering and its still only January !!!! You have only got yourself to blame, its just sheer stupidity. How others can say its sad or its bad luck its nothing short of ridiculous.

Well it is sad.
That is not ridiculous.
To see any colony die is sad and to argue otherwise is simply not human.

Bad luck maybe not, but I think anyone with common sense would appreciate saying that is meant to be more sympathetic than logical.

The chap is clearly a beginner and has made a mistake.
That doesn't mean you kick him when he's down.

What is important is that he learns.
Turn this mistake into a positive, to make himself a better beekeeper and hopefully others reading this can also learn.

If we all went around self-recriminating after every mistake we'd never have the courage to learn and improve and we'd be too scared to move for making a mistake.

A sad thing to happen to anybody.
You've learnt from your mistake, so use it to your betterment and best of luck with learning even more this coming year.

More often than not mistakes with bees aren't costly. They are quite resilient!
The time before Winter is the most important one to check for good stores, stong numbers, Q+ and check varroa loads. Those four things.

 

[aberreef]

This is farely typical of beeks who expect a week colony to servive the rigours of over wintering and its still only January !!!! You have only got yourself to blame, its just sheer stupidity. How others can say its sad or its bad luck its nothing short of ridiculous.

At the risk of starting an arguement I must say this is one of the worst posts I've ever come across. No need and shame on you for being so unpleasant

I know some people don't mince their words but there's no need to create such bad feelings on an otherwise wonderful forum.

 

[Nic Rhodes]

a new low on posts I think


to the OP, in beekeeping bees do not always follow the advice in the book where it is always black and white, and you have to think and do what you feel is right at the time. Sometimes you win, sometimes you loose. Attached is a picture of a nuc on 1st Jan. In august is was the tiniest of casts (not enough for a Keiler). All the advice was to combine it with other colonies as it was neither viable or big enough to survive the winter. Every other year of 35 years I have been beekeeping, this is what I would have done but as I had some new poly toys I dropped it in a poly nuc. It was 7 seams across 6 frames for OA on the 1st when I took the photo yet all the books and advice said no way. Beekeeping never stays still and you have change, evolve and try things, much is guided by experience but we have ALL made mistakes. I just try and learn from mine and tell others of my mistakes. I generally find those criticising, especially newbees, are the one who have made the worst mistakes.

 

[Skyhook]

I've got 2 small colonies. I too agonised going into winter, but having read about people overwinering nucs as a matter of course decided to treat them like that. I reduced them down to 8 frames, giving room for 2" of insulation each side, they have 2" above the crownboard, and 1" on the ends in the space between the top and bottom rails (they're nationals).

Am I being ridiculous? I'll let you know in spring.

 

[Rosti]

I've got 2 small colonies. I too agonised going into winter, but having read about people overwinering nucs as a matter of course decided to treat them like that. I reduced them down to 8 frames, giving room for 2" of insulation each side, they have 2" above the crownboard, and 1" on the ends in the space between the top and bottom rails (they're nationals).

Am I being ridiculous? I'll let you know in spring.

Bad luck Eddiespangle, sounds like you went into it with a suspision of a weak colony. You can be pretty certain that without your help they would have had a higher probability of failure. I have some 6 frame 14x12 nucs, one of which is over wintering a Sept11 swarm, similar to you, wasn't convinced they'd make it, they are OK so far.
Sometimes we learn at the bees expense, given you had concerns early on it doesn't feel like you should be beating yourself up over this; that said still reflect on any husbandry improvements you could have made. Just as importantly be pleased you took 3 hives into winter!

 

[drstitson]

eddie - you say it was a weak split that never got going. how were they housed? nuc or hive? poly or wood?

 

[Luminos]

I’d been worried about this colony since the summer. It was a split that never really got well established and I agonised about uniting them with a strong colony in Sep.

This is farely typical of beeks who expect a week colony to servive the rigours of over wintering and its still only January !!!! You have only got yourself to blame, its just sheer stupidity. How others can say its sad or its bad luck its nothing short of ridiculous.

That's a bit of a mean remark. I can't see how this helps the OP at all. If you'd posted something similar when I recently lost my colony I would have given up.
It takes quite a bit of courage to make a post like eddiespangle's.

Sorry about your bees, eddiespangle

 

[Erichalfbee]

Eddie, bad luck, I would have had a tear in my eye watching workers hatching into that dead hive.
You can't always do what's best. I have a small colony in a poly nat dummied down to eight frames. I gave them some spare stores in a super under and they have a little fondant on top. I wanted to give the queen a chance after she managed to mate in some tiny window amidst two months of rain last year.I made so many mistakes with that box of bees. I missed a queen cell and half of them disappeared into the same wet two months.
There is a polycarbonate crown board on top and I do sneak a look now and again. They are still there so time will tell.

 

[susbees]

At the risk of starting an arguement I must say this is one of the worst posts I've ever come across. No need and shame on you for being so unpleasant

I know some people don't mince their words but there's no need to create such bad feelings on an otherwise wonderful forum.

You're right...it was rather over blunt . All I would say is if anyone is worried about a colony then asking at a bee meet or on a forum or two for some ideas and ways to proceed is a good idea. Most people like to help on here. Some even know what they are on about

 

[Finman]

.
It is not a big question, does the colony survive over winter. It is easy.
More important is that it has bees which are able to build up the colony that it is able to forage normally.

If you have a tiny alive colony, which has only the value of queen, you must weaken your good hives and donate brood to the tiny one.

Of course it is some kind of sport that you get them alive over witer.

In these forums very seldom guys worry about spring build up. I know that in Uk Spring begins in New Year when first snow drops open. Yes and Autumn stops in Christmas.

 

[Finman]

.
Last winter again I wintered 2 frame nuc with electrict heating. We had here -30C periods.
The colony lost half of its bees. They were on the bottom. One frame hive was not able to start brood rearing. To get over April I added one frame full of bees. and later more.

A reasonable colony in Spring is over 5 frames. So you undestand that I must get bees from another hives that the queen may lay about minimum amount of brood.

In my climate it takes 6 weeks that a big colony starts grow aftern winter. It is here end of May then.

When main yield begins at the end of June, those foragers have been layed on the first half of May..

So we can look the number of brood frames in early May: does the colony has 2 frame of brood or 12 frames. It rules how much the colony has foragers to catch honey when it is time.

 

[oliver90owner]

Maybe Hemo was a bit scathing - no very scathing - but until new beeks get the message that:

They should not try do try to do things which might be difficult for an experienced beek.

That they are very decidely prone to over-estimating the strength of a colony. No previous experience, or simply get caught out in year two).

That colonies do die over winter (I've read that 75% of new colonies fail in the first twelve months of founding - perhaps the largest fraction of these would be likely be where the winter conditions finished them off or left them too weak to recover in the spring).

That there are simple steps to be taken if the colony is less than 'really strong' (read Skyhook's post above where he is not being rediculous at all. As long as the compartment is sealed at the top, it is effectively a large, well insulated nuc hive).

Sheer inexperience, not the version posted, but the warnings have been plastered all over the forum, again and again. Us older beeks (as in years of experience, perhaps) have all suffered this fate, in the hopefully distant past; we have BTDT and keep warning new beeks of the need to walk before running.

New beeks, please read and heed the warnings; use polynucs (yes, the paines version can presumably be made into a 'seven framer' by careful cutting and trimming with a very sharp blade?) My nucs are all on 14 x 12 frames - cheating really? (compared to deeps?) I don't think so, just that much stronger nucs, more space for stores and less need to interfere with them during the winter.

Winter preparations are the most important part of beekeeping, IMO. Without, you may not have a colony to expand in spring, the bees may not be healthy enough, the chance of colony survival will diminish in direct inverse proportion to the number of times opened and disturbed (even more particularly so, if the colony is a weak one) in the winter months.

Let nobody think that anyone, apart from those lucky few who learned the trade under the ever watchfull eye of a competant old hand, has never made a mistake through inexperience. Sometimes it is easy to correct, occasionally the colony fails.

Two out of three, should the other two survive to spring, is not that bad for a beginner.

RAB