Winter insulation

[Itchy]

in the tall side up configuration he is using it to contain high performance insulation, but the low performance of the plywood board conducts heat around the insulation to the outside. This compromising of insulation is known as thermal bridging.

Tall side down for fondant feeding: this places the brood further away from the insulation and increases the surface area above bees insulated by only thin stripwood. Since heat conduction is proportional to both surface area and temperature difference, increasing the surface area of the hottest surfaces is not good.

Got it, thanks!

 

[Little John]

Haha. Sorry: I've created chaos... While I have you, how do you get the bees back down when you take the feeder off: sort of use the cutout insulation you are returning as a piston? I've seen someone else describing that problem here as the "plastic card shuffle"...

Yep - that was me. I've now retro-fitted small pieces of fine aluminium mesh which are stuck over the holes - the feeder sits on top of those - the jar and mesh make contact, so the syrup hangs suspended underneath the mesh, rather than underneath the jar itself - but, otherwise there's no change in principle.

Should have done that ages ago - makes life so much easier.

Procedure now is:
take off the 'tea cosy', remove the feeder jar, loosely insert spare 'bung'.
Re-fill feeder jar, invert (with a quick shake) over a container to catch drips, and leave for 10 seconds or so.
Remove 'bung', insert inverted jar, replace 'tea cosy'. Done.

For pictures explaining above - see:
DIY Hive construction and plans and tools/ A touch of insulation

LJ

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Super, LJ. Thanks.

 

[itma]

downsides:
The tall side up its a thermal bridge, tall side down you have increased losses by increasing the heated surface area.

Derek, the suggestion is only for a practical way of making some improvement to the insulation of a wooden hive, while also having a convenient (minimal separate stored non-rugged parts) means of providing the increased headroom (thus inevitably increased surface area) required for Apiguard treatment and, if required, emergency fondant feeding.

Yes, using an all-celotex (or Recticel) coverboard should produce better insulation performance, but I fear that on a bottom-beespace wooden hive a flat celotex coverboard is going to be propped down and soon damaged on removal, preventing a good seal and destroying its effectiveness.

 

[Dared]

The ****** poly nucs overwinter just fine, without the need for any extra insulation.
Also there is no problem with condensation, just try it you will see !

I still see condensation on the poly nuc with warm and cold weather so would recommend the additional insulation under the roof above the plastic cover

 

[lebouche]

Thanks DerekM and others for the ideas.
I put two layers of cellotex in the top of my poly Nuc with holes cut out for the contact feeder. I'm wondering if I can do with just one layer as two makes the hive hard to close (eke).
Also put a jacket around my national. It covers the entrance and goes just over the 14x12 to cover a few inches of the super so the roof can go on as per usual and I can just add a layer or two of cellotex when the English feeder comes off.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I'm not disagreeing with your methods but does it really get that cold in London?
I kept bees in Cumbria in wooden hives with only top insulation and they were fine.

 

[user 6228]

Thanks DerekM and others for the ideas.
I put two layers of cellotex in the top of my poly Nuc with holes cut out for the contact feeder. I'm wondering if I can do with just one layer as two makes the hive hard to close (eke).
Also put a jacket around my national. It covers the entrance and goes just over the 14x12 to cover a few inches of the super so the roof can go on as per usual and I can just add a layer or two of cellotex when the English feeder comes off.

The crucial thing is no gaps. You need the insulation on the roof to be contiguous with the insulation on the walls. Otherwise the heat convects or conducts around your insulation. You appear to have such gaps were the wood is exposed and air can move upwards and out from the heated surfaces.

 

[lebouche]

The crucial thing is no gaps. You need the insulation on the roof to be contiguous with the insulation on the walls. Otherwise the heat convects or conducts around your insulation. You appear to have such gaps were the wood is exposed and air can move upwards and out from the heated surfaces.

The insulation inside will be overlapped by the insulation outside. Is that OK or will the wood draw heat away? Eric, the bees are in Berkshire. It might not get that cold but I figured I would like to give them the best winters chance possible. They wouldn't be in such a badly insulated environment in the wild.

 

[user 6228]

The insulation inside will be overlapped by the insulation outside. Is that OK or will the wood draw heat away? Eric, the bees are in Berkshire. It might not get that cold but I figured I would like to give them the best winters chance possible. They wouldn't be in such a badly insulated environment in the wild.

The exposed wood will be a conduction path to the outside and so will substantially increase the totlal heat loss. Note: wood conduction 3 to 8 times that of the foam.. Your "jacket" appears to have a gap on one side between it and the wood. If so that will allow convection to draw heat away.

 

[user 6228]

I'm not disagreeing with your methods but does it really get that cold in London?
I kept bees in Cumbria in wooden hives with only top insulation and they were fine.

Its all about survival margins. By having larger survival margins you are reducing stress and enabling the bees to have extra energy to cope with factors you are not able to control completely. e.g.
A colony being underweight in bees or stores
Winter being a bit more severe or longer
A minor disease, or parasite

And in spring you will get faster build up particularly of smaller colonies.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Whatever you do with insulation, you MUST be aware of vapour paths and condensation points. I'm struggling a bit with this at present. Derek's Darth Vader helmets seem to have that under control.