Winter bees

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Ah right cheers! sure I read somewhere they were different

They become different due to their early 'working' environment.Their development from egg to emergence is the same regardless of time of year so no difference in the preparation of the brood. (does that satisfy the nitpickers more? )

 

[Finman]

IT is not mere worker work and vitellogen system far from that.

If I buy Australian package bees to Finland or from NZ, they will not go alive over Winter.

When I bought queens from Cyprus, their scedule was 1.5 months too early. They started to rear brood when we had half metre snow. They shouted in the hive because they were thirsty.

If I buy Queens from Italy, quite many is not in schedule to stop brood rearing, and they die before December.

The first sign about autumn is that bees kill the drones. And they do not draw drone combs.

Then later queen stops laying.

Bees consentrate honey into brood combs from peripheria and fill brood cells with honey. But they do not do it again if you mix their system.

Bees start wintering near entrance and the cluster moves up and back..

And their own figures in early spring. A small amount of brood and waiting weathers and pollen.

I have had many foreign bee strains. They act quite differently. Like Caucasians' propolis game. Carniolan leave pollen stores for spring, but Italian consumes all in autumn.

When I look all, what bee races have shown to me about wintering, fatbody is only one thing. Wasp and bumble bees has too fatbody, that they can live over period when there are no food resources in nature.

Summary: Bees from different climates reviele differencies in wintering. And they have different adaptations for winter.

 

[linoleum bonypart]

He is right diff strains of bees have certain characteristics over winter

 

[Finman]

He is right diff strains of bees have certain characteristics over winter

You can see that way, how evolution and adaptation works.

Biggest invention in mellifera was, that it begun to habit tree holes.
Other Apis bees make open hive under sky and they migrate when season is not favorit.

Apis cerana keeps 34C temp in its wintering cluster. It has not such adaptation that it keeps lower temperature in cluster and save energy


If you study somethig and you really want to learn, do not look only one point. Comparing widely you find new aspect in phenomenom.


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[Excession]

for any one interested in the original post.

BBKA module 5 syllabus item 15: "describe in detail the differences between summer and winter worker honeybees"

All I can find is reference to fat cells as a physiological difference, there is of course the longevity associated with the lack of foraging.

But frankly not much in the recommended reading range.

The bible (Dadant's hive and the honey bee) has nothing.

 

[Finman]

All I can find is reference to fat cells as a physiological difference, there is of course the longevity associated with the lack of foraging.

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Have you ever heard how winter bees drop cluster temperature from 35 to 23C?

Have you ever heard, that winterbees move food into brood frames shen kast bees emerge, that the whole cluster has stores. Summer bees do not.

60 years ago German researchers revieled out that protein content is in autumn even 4 fould compared to spring bee. Same bees.
And protein content correlates with good wintering.



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[MuswellMetro]

use google scholar and search for Juvenille Hormones and vitelloginin and look through the various artcles and find one that relates to winter bees,

quote from a few of the articles

in contrast to the continuously increasing titre of juvenile hormone in ageing summer bees, winter bees kept a constant low level. In bees at the beginning of winter, the hormone titre never reached high values. However, at the end of winter it rose from a low to a high level, comparable with the high titre of 24–40-day old summer bees. In experimentally induced longlived bees in summer, the juvenile hormone titre did not increase as in normal summer bees but remained low as in bees at the beginning of winter. Among the known natural juvenile hormones, only juvenile hormone III was present in the haemolymph of winter bees.
The results support the hypothesis of polyphenism being regulated by the titre of juvenile hormone in the haemolymph.

or

Little is known about the development of the overwintering population of honey bees (Apis mellifera) colonies in temperate climates. Colonies were subjected to one of four requeening treatments: requeened in mid-summer with a mated, virgin or colony-reared queen, or left with the original queen (control). Worker survival in cohorts of newly emerged bees introduced to colonies in late summer and fall was followed until all marked bees had died. Winter bees were reared over a relatively similar length of time in all treatments, but they appeared earlier in control colonies compared to requeened colonies. The gradual increase in proportion of winter bees over time was similar among treatments, but requeened colonies lagged behind control colonies. The bulk of winter bees appeared much earlier in control colonies than in colonies that were requeened. This response demonstrates that cues within the colony (i.e., differences due to requeening) are perceived by workers as part of the conditions that influence summer bee or winter bee status.


so are they the same or are the differrent or just retarded suumer bees, you decide having read the articles

 

[Finman]

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Retarded summer bees... Oh dear.

Guys, when you are interested on bees, and you omit knowledge on this this level, how it helps you to take care better the bees over winter?

Retarded summer bees.... How that information helps you to arange things so, that bees do well over winter?

Juvenine hormone level... Should we measure it or does it has any meaning in beekeepers work...

Is it something else what you should know.

Now we have voted about theory and it is retarded summer bee.

I buy package bees from NZ, and all 10 colonies die. Answer was, they were not rerarded enough.

Our researcher had 10 Anatolian colonies. They all died during two winters.

One colony was in Balance Network study, and the Anatolian colony spent twice so much winterfood as others. The colony had spent the stores before new year and half winter was ahead. With its speed it would need 80 kg sugar to survive from September to May.

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[juanito]

Well, I sure am glad that our bees don't need to go into winter cluster, one less thing to worry about...

 

[Finman]

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We know that there are persons, who are able to popularize scientic information.

I wonder, how many on this forum knows, that means term "physiology". Then you can read IT from dictionary, that it means "how organs works and communicate together". ...what heck work.... What communication...what is happening inside organs... What is organ...

Guys in this forum need "popularizing' but when it goes too far, information looses its purpose. If winterbees are 'retarded summerbees' and you yourself can decide what they are, mininimizing information has gone too far.

And I wonder, how such Person, who hates education, how ge can popularize scientic information. I know many persons, who hate scientic knowledge, but however they invent their own explanations to things.

In my country the ability to read English biolocical text is rare among beekeepers, but it seems to bee quite rare among English forums too.

. I loose nothing from my ego, when I read these efforts to popularize science.
Do not teach pigs to sing, because pigs do not sing.
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[Erichalfbee]

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Do not teach pigs to sing, because pigs do not sing.
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Unless they're called Babe

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

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. I loose nothing from my ego
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well, it is hard to miss

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Do not teach pigs to sing, because pigs do not sing.
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But they shore do squeal preetty.................
weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

 

[Excession]

Thanks MM.

Food for thought.

 

[Cussword]

So, at the end of all this, do winter bees (no matter what strain) become winter bees after emerging, or because as some say, they were feed "special" food as larvae.

I mean no offence by this post.

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[Gaz1]

So, at the end of all this, do winter bees (no matter what strain) become winter bees after emerging, or because as some say, they were feed "special" food as larvae.

I mean no offence by this post.

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I'd suggest looking on google and coming to your own opinion, as all you will get from this thread is JBM and Finnish posting stupid messages to each other because niether one has the maturity to put their difference aside for the sake of the forum. Both have very interesting ideas and great knowledge (from what I've read) Shame they spoil Threads when they disagree on a subjest

 

[Erichalfbee]

as all you will get from this thread is JBM and Finnish posting stupid messages to each other because niether one has the maturity to put their difference aside for the sake of the forum. Shame they spoil Threads when they disagree on a subjest

Now they don't really do they?
It's easy to sift the dross but most of it is quite funny. Most of us would hate the forum to be like an encyclopædia.

 

[Gaz1]

Of course banters great! but 5 pages of it? better if they spread out their love for each other across the forum not just one thread

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I'd suggest looking on google and coming to your own opinion, as all you will get from this thread is JBM and Finnish posting stupid messages to each other because niether one has the maturity to put their difference aside for the sake of the forum. Both have very interesting ideas and great knowledge (from what I've read) Shame they spoil Threads when they disagree on a subjest

Out done in trumps by your pomposity, I bow to your superior stance your supreme arsey holiness

 

[chrisb]

 

[Finman]

Both have very interesting ideas and great knowledge

In the issue like this there should not be "ideas". This issue has been researched at least 100 years. This does not earn any hobby beekeepers ideas.

My views is based on university education in biology, how things should be handled. 5 years education.
And I have read really much new researches about wintering. Our winter happens to be a little bit harder than your hard winter.

Out bees do not get pollen during 7 months a year. And as you write out there, your bees forage in every month. Some remind me that you have different climate. Nice to know.

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