Winter bees

[Brian Bush]

as all you will get from this thread is JBM and Finnish posting stupid messages to each other because niether one has the maturity to put their difference aside for the sake of the forum. Both have very interesting ideas and great knowledge (from what I've read) Shame they spoil Threads when they disagree on a subjest

I agree Gaz1. This immaturity and schoolboy bickering should stop. Some of the posts have been removed by admin but one of the pair needs to be warned. This is a classic case of the well-read beekeeper being at odds with the one who has learned by practical experience. I have been following this thread from the outset and only posted the once for fear of sparking a bout of bile from one of the members and his group of acolytes. They are both correct in parts but need to grow up. Personal insults is not the way to conduct a serious discussion. Forum members will start to fall away again if this continues. They need to learn to agree to disagree!! If you put 4 beekeepers in a room you will have at least five opinions. I am sick of the attitude of one of these members and I have sent a PM to admin on 3 occasions. It worries me that one member has in the past been suspended and may be the one who is treated severely again. The other member seems to lead a charmed life because no-one challenges him. For goodness sake let us have reasoned discussions.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

If it bothers you that much - I can show you the ignore button if you like.

 

[Finman]

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I am arranging my hives for Winter feeding. Time to change the last queens and take new from nucs.

Case one: I bought that queen last summer. Not very big colony during summer. Very little brood now. Changed.

Another hive had yesterday 2 boxes brood and another of then had whole box open larvae. Normal colony cannot have that much brood rearing this time of Autumn .. I killed the Queen.
I allready took one box capped brood from that hive 2 weeks ago and I made a nuc. That kind of genes have no future in Finland.

I have several own queens from last year. They are unmarked but wing clipped. I change them so much what I have new buckfast queens. Most are good but they have those swarming genes.


Queens are easy to change during winter feeding.
. At same time I make empty the rest nucs.
.

 

[Goran]

Fast translate from the book which I used in my beekeeping learning ( and still use). This doesn't have to be A priori the truth and only truth so help..

Quote from the book " Beekeeping with Langstroth and Alberti Znidersic hive - from beekeeping practice" by Stjepan Majsec:
Winter bees
The name itself says that are bees which will overwinter and in spring assure reproduction in bee colony.
Winter bees are so important for strength and existence of bee colony that it isn’t by accident that are these mentioned on more places in this book, during different operations at he apiary. Never disregard their role cause that way you will save a lot of spent wasted time and the money due lost profit. Always bear in mind that only strong bee colony brings benefit at the apiary, while the weak ones are only burden, demand a lot of work and create the loss.
Of summer bees, winter bees are distinguished not only by that they will survive up to 8 months, also in the quality. In their tissue they have more dry matter, what is exceptionally crucial for living during winter ( easier tolerate cold or simplified said, more resistant to freezing). Due to higher pollen feed and increased feed during development, in bodies of such bees is forming fatty protein tissue, “ fat”. That enables them that first winter brood they grow without pollen. Further, that means that bees shouldn’t be kept busy ( or at least in higher intensity) on larvae feeding, especially that up to three days old, in that way they will spare their mammary glands. The rest of glands ( wax glands, salivary glands) have to remain inactive, cause their usage would weaken bee oraganism, and that way shorten their life. Therefore, they shouldn’t work on transforming of sugar syrup during additional feeding, nor build the comb and cap the cells with winter food.
According to researches, 70-85% of these bees, emerged in August and September live up to spring, many even till the end of April. For a difference of summer bees, which live 5-6 weeks, winter bees should live even up to 8 months. In that way prolongued lifespan enable them, beside some stronger structure, just sparing from works which would exhaust them, and about we talked. Beside that they are of some stronger structure, they are some heavier than summer bees.
To insure enough of winter bees, at the end of August in langstroth hive there should be 5-6 frames of brood. That amount of brood in that time, with the bees emerged during August and the ones which will emerge in September, and even some in October, will represent the bee colony capable for overwintering, and that is between 20000 till 30000 bees. "

I hope some mistakes I made in translation aren't significant.. Apologies in advance..

 

[Erichalfbee]

To insure enough of winter bees, at the end of August in langstroth hive there should be 5-6 frames of brood.

I hope it's different for our BS Nats......or my colonies are all doomed

 

[Finman]

I hope it's different for our BS Nats......or my colonies are all doomed

Originally Posted by Goran View Post
To insure enough of winter bees, at the end of August in langstroth hive there should be 5-6 frames of brood.

That 6 frames of brood is very realistic. That is minimum that you get a productive colony to get honey yield.

I can over winter one frame nuc with electrict heating, but it is mere toy. That size colony cannot rear brood next spring. Bees are tired and the nuc will dwindle away quickly.

When we count, that is it usual that the colony looses half of its bees before new bees start to emerge (ofter with aid of varroa) 3 frame colony has real difficulties to start in spring.

4 frame nuc live well over winter, but it needs help from bigger colonies. It will build up a full colony but the summer is then at the end.

Why don't you rear big colonies instead that you try to rear them bigger during worst time of the year.

Göran is very right.

 

[Finman]

I hope it's different for our BS Nats......or my colonies are all doomed

Learn to rear big colonies. First, buy good laying queens and keep your mesh floor closed.
.

 

[Cussword]

Some of the posts have been removed by admin.

Two of mine were, but they were not meant to be offensive. I didn't understand Finman's point about different strains of bees, maybe I shouldn't have said so.

I mean no offence by this post.

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[Gaz1]

Two of mine were, but they were not meant to be offensive. I didn't understand Finman's point about different strains of bees, maybe I shouldn't have said so.

I mean no offence by this post.

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Ah don't worry about it! Is what it is think admin probably just trimmed the thread down more than found it offensive

 

[beeno]

II have been following this thread from the outset and only posted the once for fear of sparking a bout of bile from one of the members and his group of acolytes.

That's why they are acolytes. Flattery works on most people sadly, particularly on that one. I agree with all the sentiments of your email. Yes it is tiring with the constant bile and sniping. If there is someone out there that does not like the content of this message please press the ignore button. xx

 

[Cussword]

If there is someone out there that does not like the content of this message please press the ignore button. xx

My sentiments entirely.

If people ignored what they don't like, there would be no moaning or need to delete posts.

I mean no offence by this post.

.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Learn to rear big colonies. First, buy good laying queens and keep your mesh floor closed.
.

my post was tongue in cheek. Yes you need those frames of winter bees but my biggest colonies are taking a brood break(ish) as there is a lack of pollen. There is plenty of time yet, ivy is to come. No need to replace the queen. I have frames if pollen in the freezer so just taken some out to put in.

 

[Ely]

Nothing wrong with a bit of heated discussion, it is interesting. It is all the post reflection and whining that is tedious (although this post is now guilty of it) .

 

[Erichalfbee]

I mean no offence by this post.

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Are you sure ?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Nothing wrong with a bit of heated discussion, it is interesting. It is all the post reflection and whining that is tedious (although this post is now guilty of it) ��.

 

[Cussword]

my post was tongue in cheek. Yes you need those frames of winter bees but my biggest colonies are taking a brood break(ish) as there is a lack of pollen. There is plenty of time yet, ivy is to come. No need to replace the queen. I have frames if pollen in the freezer so just taken some out to put in.

Frames of pollen in the freezer? Did you store them in mid-Summer when they filled the hive up with it?

I'll try that next year, thanks Erica.

.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Yes. They are from summer surplus. I had a wally shaw split that failed to produce a queen and filled practically a whole 14x12 brood box with pollen. I think it's much better to store excess in the freezer than trying to second guess the bees' needs and use a pollen trap. In a frame it's ready to eat as well.

 

[Finman]

I mean no offence by this post.

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Yeah. Responsibility transmitted to listener...

 

[Finman]

my post was tongue in cheek. .

Yes I saw. Quite swollen. I thought that is was bee sting happening.

 

[Cussword]

Yeah. Responsibility transmitted to listener...

Just covering my back Finnie.

I hope I didn't offend you.