Winter and the varoa mite

[markfitz]

Hi all does mite levels drop naturally during the winter months due to lack of brood there fore no where for the mites to lay there eggs. Thanks

 

[thebeeman]

Hi
In the winter when there is no brood the mites overwinter on the bees
So some mites will die off as do bees. Until they and the bees start again in the spring

 

[Tom Bick]

Yes as with the bees some mites will die and fall from the bees. Some of these mites will fall through the mesh floor but others land in empty cells that can give the beekeeper a high drop during early spring as the bees start to clean cells for the queen to lay.

 

[itma]

It is because any remaining varroa are necessarily on bees (nowhere to hide or breed) that they are particularly vulnerable to a midwinter anti-varroa treatment, timed for when they have no sealed brood at all (hopefully).

 

[markfitz]

Thanks all might consider treating them in the winter

 

[BeeJayBee]

Hi all does mite levels drop naturally during the winter months due to lack of brood there fore no where for the mites to lay there eggs.

The mite population usually increases during the year along with the number of bees/amount of brood, but there's a slight lag because of the way varroa reproduces. It means that the natural mite population will be proportionally higher - per capita, per bee - in the autumn than in the summer, which means there is a risk of greater damage to the colony if the beekeeper does nothing*.

It's better explained by Randy Oliver Understanding Varroa Population Dynamics and by a fairly old graph on Dave Cushman's site

* Bear in mind that some beekeepers are 'treatment-free' or 'chemical-free', and are happy with the health of their bees. You'll have to ask them what they do about varroa.

 

[markfitz]

The mite population usually increases during the year along with the number of bees/amount of brood, but there's a slight lag because of the way varroa reproduces. It means that the natural mite population will be proportionally higher - per capita, per bee - in the autumn than in the summer, which means there is a risk of greater damage to the colony if the beekeeper does nothing*.

It's better explained by Randy Oliver Understanding Varroa Population Dynamics and by a fairly old graph on Dave Cushman's site

* Bear in mind that some beekeepers are 'treatment-free' or 'chemical-free', and are happy with the health of their bees. You'll have to ask them what they do about varroa.

thanks beejoyfull

 

[BrianO]

Very Interesting.


So what is the current general consensus for the best form of winter treatment to target these little *&#^$ when they are on Bees in winter cluster ?

 

[mbc]

Very Interesting.


So what is the current general consensus for the best form of winter treatment to target these little *&#^$ when they are on Bees in winter cluster ?

Not sure about any consensus, but many treat with an oxalic dribble. For my own part I feel the oxalic dribble is a tad harsh on the bees, and in many cases will be the straw that breaks the camels back, so oxalic vapour is now my poison of choice, if anything at all, in the winter.

 

[itma]

So what is the current general consensus for the best form of winter treatment to target these little *&#^$ when they are on Bees in winter cluster ?

The targeting is of the mites when the bees have no sealed brood.

For 4 hives, kitting up for Oxalic vaporisation is expensive.
Also I resolutely believe that it is inappropriate and irresponsible (and likely illegal) to vaporise Oxalic in an urban or suburban environment.

For the starting-years beekeeper, "trickling" ready-made Oxalic syrup is the simple, safe and pretty damn effective way to go. Products such as Thorne's "Trickle2" are pretty much ideal, as there is little scope for error.
Just note that Oxalic syrup has a desperately short shelf-life. Weeks. Don't store it. Buy immediately before use. After use, wash out and keep the dispenser bottle (for the future!)

 

[BrianO]

Thanks .. Very helpful !! and now part of my future winter plan. Is there an optimium time for this in the winter ?

 

[protheroe]

early january most people use oxalic

 

[mbc]

early january most people use oxalic

The optimum time is when there is no brood. A few years ago I took a peek in the bees virtually every week through the early winter and found brood in some from the solstice on, so early December up to the solstice is when I reckon to have the best chance of zero brood.

 

[Teemore]

As a very general rule of thumb, I treat colonies approximately two weeks after the first good frost. This has tended to bring me close to the Solstice so I think mbc's comments are very apt.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

The optimum time is when there is no brood. A few years ago I took a peek in the bees virtually every week through the early winter and found brood in some from the solstice on, so early December up to the solstice is when I reckon to have the best chance of zero brood.

I lucked out on 18 Dec. I reckon many go too late, including the v well-known bee farms I bought an overwintered nuc from.

Plan A is to choose a flying day around then and inspect for brood (this caused wild controversy last year but worked well for me). Question then is whether to destroy any brood (and comb) or more likely concentrate it on one colony which I treat later, presumably with MAQS.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

early january most people use oxalic

See my post above.

 

[itma]

The optimum time is when there is no brood. A few years ago I took a peek in the bees virtually every week through the early winter and found brood in some from the solstice on, so early December up to the solstice is when I reckon to have the best chance of zero brood.

Like mbc, I'm going for sometime around St Ambrose's day, rather than waiting until the Christmas holiday period, as has become the beekeeping tradition.

Oddly, the published research indicates that the likeliest time for broodlessness is about now. (But my bees clearly haven't read that book.)
Jeffree's paper : http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF02225761

Summary
In 367 examinations of healthy honeybee colonies during each of the months September to March inclusive, conducted over 7 years, the quantities of brood present and the quantities of pollen in the combs were determined. The brood minimum occurred in October, when brood was present in only 14% of colonies,

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Like mbc, I'm going for sometime around St Ambrose's day, rather than waiting until the Christmas holiday period, as has become the beekeeping tradition.

Oddly, the published research indicates that the likeliest time for broodlessness is about now. (But my bees clearly haven't read that book.)
Jeffree's paper : http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF02225761

He was a long way north, but the basic point tgat it is earlier than often thought holds. Hivemaker swears by early September I think it is in his subtropic.

 

[itma]

He was a long way north, but the basic point tgat it is earlier than often thought holds…

Jeffree's research was conducted near Aberdeen.
Its not Finland.
For the next week or so, the BBC forecast has it as only 2 or 3 degrees cooler than Kent.

Today, Aberdeen's sunrise was 21 minutes later than mine, and sunset 6 minutes later - so there's no vast difference in October day length either.


Last weekend, I went round 3 friends' apiaries, seeing about a dozen hives. None broodless!

I admit, Jeffree's finding does puzzle me … maybe we should 'crowd-source' some sort of re-run of his experiment?

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Jeffree's research was conducted near Aberdeen.
Its not Finland.
For the next week or so, the BBC forecast has it as only 2 or 3 degrees cooler than Kent.

Today, Aberdeen's sunrise was 21 minutes later than mine, and sunset 6 minutes later - so there's no vast difference in October day length either.


Last weekend, I went round 3 friends' apiaries, seeing about a dozen hives. None broodless!

I admit, Jeffree's finding does puzzle me … maybe we should 'crowd-source' some sort of re-run of his experiment?

Latitudes (nearest degree)
London 51
Aberdeen 57
Helsinki 60

Average Low/High September temperatures (ditto: source worldweatheronline.com)
London 13 / 20
Aberdeen 9 / 15
Helsinki 7 / 16

Never mind Helsinki; Aberdeen beekeeping is going to be a very different experience from mine. I bet the September flows are WILDLY different.

I agree on the crowd-sourcing.