Wildflower meadow for bees Pic's included

[For want of a better word]

Chris does it matter what the bees are is the reason for planting,maintaining and providing an area not only for insects but for the public to enjoy all to often the local council plant great beds of bedding with little or no vaule to insects.WELL I HOPE TO CHANGE ALL THAT, signing off a very happy landscape designer.

Into the realms of environmental philosophy..... The great general public have picked up and run with the wild-flower meadow / reinstated prairie ideal.

This is great for bee keepers... providing that a high percentage of honey bee forage plants are included and encouraged to grow, within the mix of seeds.

Good luck to you Robbie.. I am certain we are all behind you with your deep green environmentalism!

 

[Chris Luck]

I did say that it's good for other species and that's GREAT.

BUT

I still work, (although retired), in the field of wildlife conservation and habitat management. This also involves species recording for both local and National recording as well as for proposed roads, railways etc.

It is essential that however pedantic it may seem that we are 100% factual, nothing is "made-up" to appear better or worse than it is and that the species recording is correct, especially if this is going to be put into the public domain.

It's no good getting upset with me for asking proper questions when you are making claims that would appear to be erroneous, especially as it now would seem you have a vested interest - landscape gardener!

Chris

 

[Robbie & Jans Bees]

Chris yes I have a vested intrest I am a bee keeper and have many fiends in Plymouth who also keep bees and I guess the bulk of local bummblebees are gratful for the forage as for me having a vested intrest in the site your dam right its a flagship project for my company and I am proud to say so. PS I am not retired and live in the UK?

 

[Swarm]

It's an excellent project, R+J Bees, I agree with your statement about local authorities. Not only is their idea of planting somewhat limited (begonias,impatiens) they also have a wonderful knack of mowing any wildflower flat before it has time to self seed and be of any use to nectar/pollen gatherers. Loads of white clover has just been chewed up near me and we now have the temperatures. These authorities need educating, they spout native species when projects are being undertaken, yet employ witless contractors to maintain them.
I mentioned, same as Chris, that they were not honey bee plants but still a rich source for other insects. With the addition of a few well chosen plants, it will encorporate honey bees as well.
Good for you, I hope your venture proves to be a great success.

 

[george]

R and J . There are , in life , what my old boss used to call energy sappers . No matter what you do , its not big enough , bright enough , effective enough , you get the idea .
Keep doing what you are doing , there are countless numbers of bugs and beast who will thive not only from it but in it .
Reading through some of the responses on here you wonder whether concreting the whole thing would be the preferred option .
It looks great .You should be well pleased .
G

 

[Chris Luck]

Read my words and those of Finman, ITLD etc. I have said it's GREAT for some insects but not honey bees. The problem is that when Robbie and Jans bees wrote..

Well some body better tell the honey bees that? they are all over the meadow still we need to start somewhere I had an E-mail today from the BBC asking for a interview about the meadow great news if we can run the scheme out over the city?

....and I asked what flowers they were foraging on I was effectively blanked, hardly a scientific response, which is all I ask for.

Why the fact that I have lived and worked in France and am "retired" has anything to do with my abilities I don't know.

Reading through some of the responses on here you wonder whether concreting the whole thing would be the preferred option

Perhaps you could give an example?

Chris

 

[george]

Hi Chris .

Have a look at the first entry on this thread . It says , Wildflower meadow for 'bees' not honey bees . There is a mention of honey bees later on , this , after being told it wasnt attractive to honey bees the op said there were indeed honey bees on it . I assume they were not going to tell porkies just to save face .

Cant help you with a list of contents , I did'nt sow it .

As for retirement , good luck to you . I hope it is long and productive .

As for the concrete idea . I was going for irony , but if you have to ask .....
G

 

[Chris Luck]

As usual this is turning into something far more complicated than it had to be and having tried to be relatively positive I'm obliged to go forward with a different hat on.

Hi Chris there is 10 slections of seed the one in the butterfly photo is a standard wildflower annual mix corn cockle, corn poppy, cornflower, oxeye daisy, corn marrigold. but we have included mixes from South Africa and USA if you go to Pictoria meadows then you can find the mixes, hope this helps. Robbie

Standard wildflower annual mix corn cockle, corn poppy, cornflower, oxeye daisy, corn marigold. Fine, all native species commonly called "plants of cultivation", species that have developed with mankind requiring a relatively bare surface and surface scuffing or disturbance for germination. Poppy used by honey bees early morning, cornflower rarely used, others never used or in desperation.

but we have included mixes from South Africa and USA These can never be considered to be part of a natural European wild flower meadow, garden plants maybe but there is always the risk that species introduced on a larger scale will have a detrimental effect on some native species. Interestingly Buddlia is now considered a non native invasive species and as you all know H. Balsom is in the same category Europe wide.

Now I guess with some certainty that this won't bother many bee keepers because for some strange reason they aren't all interested in wildlife or the environment as a whole, but please can we be honest and call it as it is? I've done this on many threads including systemic pesticides even though I'm totally opposed to them and the large corporations that produce them. I haven't pretended they are harming my bees even though I could have.

Chris

 

[Into the lions den]

Agree with Chris.....the thread has sprouted arms and legs, probably stemming form the understandable (given that it is posted on a forum almost entirely the domain of the keepers of HONEYbees) assupmtion that the OP was referring to OUR type of bees when using the word 'bees'.....re-inforced later by the statement that it was chosen for the high yields of pollen and nectar.

No criticism of the planting itself, its very nice and we see this done quite often on roundabouts etc around Perth. Looks great, appeals to lots of insects. General environmental benefit. No negatives on that.

High pollen? yes, probably is. High nectar? Most likely not. The only plant I see in the pics that the honeybees will be working enthusiastically, except in time of dearth elsewhere, is the white clover, which from the look of the plot may not actually be a part of the intentional planting.

The reading of this as 'honeybees' rather than 'bees' is due in large part to the focus of the forum being mainly on honeybees (yes, we do get bumblebee stuff too from time to time), but, and I wonder if there is a little 'hiding behind the bushes' going on here, it may also stem from a genuine belief of the OP that this WAS a good honeybee planting, and that a bit of post hoc adjusting of position making use of the ambiguous language has taken place?

I like the planting, its very nice, a pleasure to see, and we may well have a focus on honeybees, but also would think that the vast majority of us here have a general interest in the natural world beyond our narrow domain. As such your initiative is to be congratulated!

 

[Robbie & Jans Bees]

qoute from web site, Green Estate and Pictorial Meadows work closely with Professors James Hitchmough and Nigel Dunnett to bring to life their pioneering work in naturalistic urban horticulture which has become known as ‘The Sheffield School’ and was recently sited by the Daily Telegraph as one of current leading influences in professional horticulture and gardening in the UK.



Pictorial Meadows is currently also working with the Universities of Edinburgh, Bristol , Leeds and Reading on the national 4 year ‘Urban Pollinators Project’ to establish empirical data to help improve seed mix formulations to encourage more bees, butterflies, and other beneficial insect pollinators.

 

[Chris Luck]

And? What's that supposed to mean? Waffle, waffle, waffle.

If you don't know your subject perhaps you should research it.

I will be pleased to discuss these matters in any open public discussion, TV, Radio, meeting hall or what ever but not with meaningless "copy and paste".

Good luck with the seed business,

(BTW. They are really cheap in France for the hunters, used for pheasant and partridge cover).

Chris

 

[For want of a better word]

Methinks thereby lays the difference between proper Restoration Ecology and
Parks Management appealing to the general public's idea of a "natural wild flower meadow"... now if we could turn our attention to golf courses and ask them to plant honey bee friendly plants around the monoculture of fine festuca... we may get somewhere!

 

[Robbie & Jans Bees]

I have never said I am an expert, the waffle you talk about is from the olympic park project thats the big event we have here in the uk starts tonight just in case you miss the news I contacted them and they advised us what would be best for our insect life. I think we will never agree so I bow to your old age and knowledge.

 

[Chris Luck]

There's such a thing as being open to learn, study, question and research.

I am, as in the thread discussing the dynamics of air flow in hives a subject which I know nothing about, hence I've been reading it.

Got the tele on BBC1 now for the Olympics and just thinking how in so many ways the UK leaves France standing, such as having people of all racial backgrounds and cultures in front line roles.

Chris

 

[Robbie & Jans Bees]

I am sorry if I upset you in any way that was never my intenion I just love Conservation no matter what form that takes and yes I learn somthing new every day and today has been no exception??

 

[Chris Luck]

Good Lord, upset me? I don't take things personally or hold grudges, life's to short for all that crap, but I'm serious, if you had been nearer I would have been pleased to give a presentation and take questions.

While I'm sounding of...here's a small snip from an article I wrote entitled "They are pretty" some years ago about the situation in France, not exactly the same but very similar.

The plants that are used have absolutely no place in the countryside, or I should say that only one of the plants that are used has a place in the countryside, but certainly not in the way it is being used. The main flowers used are: Cornflower, Cosmos, Zinnia, Californian poppies, Nigella, Marigolds, Perennial Flax, and Campanula. As can be seen these are effectively garden flowers, not native species, but of course, we mustn’t forget that they are pretty!
It is recommended that these parcels of land should be placed next to roads, primarily Autoroutes and Route Nationales if possible, TGV lines and anywhere where they will gain the maximum amount of publicity, there was even one opposite Poitiers airport.
So what species benefit from these country gardens? To try and be fair they are quite useful for some species of bee, some other insects and a few birds, although none of the birds that they are useful for are in any particular difficulty, but, and here we have it, again in their words, they are excellent for pheasants and partridge, so, that’s OK then, and they are pretty, everyone says so, which is the idea.

Chris

 

[Robbie & Jans Bees]

Yes chris I agree with what you say but I am only taking advice from the profs does it matter what the benifits are providing its in a controled enviroment this area is surrouned by building and tarmac its just my oasis in what would be a cut lawn????????????

 

[Chris Luck]

What matters is accurate information when either writing or talking to the public.

The whole honey bee business is just one big gravy train when in reality there is nothing wrong with them, they are fine, people on this forum "have too many" but things have to be sold, university professors have to safeguard their jobs, millions of Euros, Pounds, Dollars, are at stake - not honey bees.

Why not sell your seeds as "insect friendly" and research exactly what species are benefiting? In addition, research what species benefit from the species that directly benefit. E.G Birds eat seeds and small mammals. Provide a real service and earn a living at the same time.

Chris

 

[Robbie & Jans Bees]

Chris I am on site next week I will take more photos and post hopefully it will give some evedence

 

[alanf]

To be fair, under 'our seeds', the company are clear that the mixes are not suitable for conservation purposes.

Pictorial Meadows seed mixtures contain native wild flowers and non-native garden plants, and are a product of more than one country. They are therefore not suitable for conservation mixes for use in rural areas outside garden boundaries.

They are seed merchants, which is fair enough. Their mix is preferable to what used to be the default hybrid ryegrass which councils up and down the land have planted over massive areas in public parks.

Aside from the non native content, another factor to bear in mind is that they are far from a cheap source. I have no connection with any seed firm (not for many years anyway) but one I have used myself is Emorsgate. I know they supply some county trusts as well as local councils. They sell native mixes in plain brown packets, as well as a long list of individual species. They are also up front about the species in the mix and the original source of seed collection. To take an example price, both under 'annuals': Pictorial Meadows 100g 'native cornfield' is £30.90, Emorsgate 100g 'standard cornfield mixture' is £6.00. Quite a difference.