Why is this method not used to prevent swarming

[loving_allsorts]

Good Evening again,

I didn't want to ask two questions on the same thread as they are not related subjects.

I was reading the latest issue of BBKA News, specifically the article wrt prevention of swarming, and the gentleman's idea of making a weight activated hive entrance door, when an idea came to me.

Why do we not put a queen excluder between the floor and the brood chamber as well as above the brood chamber? I am aware that a new queen needs to get out to mate, HOWEVER, once you are aware of a new queen (no marker on your queen) you could remove the queen excluder until you see eggs in cells again and then replace it.

Why is this not done. It seems to simple an idea for it not to have been considered in the past.

Many thanks

Mark

 

[oliver90owner]

Think. Drones.

 

[drstitson]

queen excluder method does work if you use an entrance above the top QE rather than having an extra bottom QE.

check out the Queen Trap SPS on the MB website.

 

[Finman]

.
50 years ago that kind of excluder jobs were wastly represented in beekeeping books

For example there is a foundation box under the hive and then with excluder the queen is leaded to downstairs.¨
In those days bees were earger to swarm.

awfull systems. There are better and more natural ways to arrange the job.

 

[DanBee]

The art of swarm control is in working with the bees, not in frustrating them, whilst achieving the beekeeper's objectives. Sealing the queen in with a queen excluder is akin to repeatedly knocking down swarm cells. The bees will want to swarm and will be frustrated, over time they will become demoralised and unproductive.

I'd take the articles by the gentleman you refer to with a big pinch of salt. Last month's article from him was such a howler that we were debating the dearth of material and editorial standards; he fails to make a clear distinction between speculation and experience. My first thought was "wind" when reading about the flip-flop swarm trap, but based upon his previous article I didn't even bother to sketch what he described to evaluate its usefulness.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

queen excluder method does work if you use an entrance above the top QE rather than having an extra bottom QE.

check out the Queen Trap SPS on the MB website.

Sometimes an extra bottom can come in handy DrS

 

[loving_allsorts]

Thanks for the comments folk. The Drones would be an issue. They have no use as such other than being flying genetailia. However, When the ladies get fed up with them and want them out how would that happen with a QE under the brood chamber.
How would the bees expell any debris that is bigger than themselves,

Cheers

Mark

 

[Arfermo]

Good Evening again,

Why is this not done. It seems to simple an idea for it not to have been considered in the past.

Mark

How do you KNOW it hadn't been considered in the past? Bet it has as no much is new. But you do what you want.

 

[drstitson]

"They have no use as such other than being flying genetailia. However, When the ladies get fed up with them and want them out how would that happen with a QE under the brood chamber. How would the bees expell any debris that is bigger than themselves"

We're not just worried about end of summer drone expulsion...

Think about it - drones only get to USE their genitalia OUTSIDE the hive. They need daily access to outdoors to do their job otherwise they serve absolutely no purpose aside from consuming valuable stores. QE below will quickly jam up with dead and dying drones literally "dying for a sh*g".

Aside from drones and HM there should be no source of "debris" larger than a worker!!!! especially in a hive where there is a QE "sieve" controlling both exit AND entry!! apart from those hated pieces of ALV that bees so love to expel from hives.

 

[dilys]

Mark

I don't think your take on the drone problem is a little adrift of the Mark (sorry - couldn't resist than one). If drones can't escape there is a strong likelyhood that they will kill themselves by getting jammed in the bottom queen excluder. It will be difficult for you to see just how bad the congestion is until they interfere with the passage of the workers, or until the hive stinks. In addition it can't be healthy to have all those dead bodies decaying inside the hive.

I think, for once, that Dan gave the best answer. The way I see it is that bees aren't like domesticated farm animals that have been bred for thousands of years to behave in a manner that best suits us. They still have their wild instincts and try to behave in a manner that suits a wild environment. Frustrating their natural behaviour too much over-stress them.

Dil

edit - sorry, drstitson got his answer in before me.

 

[Silly Bee]

Aren't QE also likely to dislodge any pollen that is being brought in?

The same reason I understand why QE cut into strips is unsuitable for use as a mouse guard.

 

[DanBee]

I think, for once, that Dan gave the best answer.

Thanks

 

[JamezF]

Thanks

Danned by faint praise

James

 

[JamezF]

It also occurs to me that mating isn't the only reason the drones leave the hive. There are other bodily functions to take care of, too.

I often collect swarms in a box that I put over the top of a QX once I have the queen, to allow the rest of the bees to join her. I have been told (and know of people who claim it's happened to them, though I've not experienced it myself) that because queens slim down before swarming takes place, her maj can sometimes pass though the QX.

James

 

[psafloyd]

Sometimes an extra bottom can come in handy DrS

Have felt like that after drinking Gillespie's all evening...

 

[Hivemaker.]

though I've not experienced it myself) that because queens slim down before swarming takes place, her maj can sometimes pass though the QX.
James

Some smaller queens (smaller thorax) could indeed get through an excluder,but they could most likely do it at any time,it is the queens thorax that prevents her from passing through an excluder,and this does not shrink in size when the queen is slimmed down for swarming, it is her abdomen that reduces in size. So depends if you have good sized queens really.

Excluder is often used to keep queens in mini mating nucs (prevent absconding) and also to keep virgin queens in the same,and to prevent them from going on mating flights.