Why did this colony die?

[Tom Bick]

Yes Lesley that’s the right thing see what can be learnt from the situation and if faults can be found try not to repeat them. Personally I don’t think you have done a great deal wrong but always something to learn. Out of interest what was the stores situation in the BB?

 

[Erichalfbee]

but there were about 3 litres of dead bees

Oh Lesley.....that's so awful.

 

[Erichalfbee]

putting stores below brood box is a very bad idea because of looting.

Not if you do it early while the bees are still stocking up for winter.

 

[sunhivebee]

Oh Lesley.....that's so awful.

Yes, this must be so sad for you and will probably not happen again.

The following advice from Itma's first response is excellent:

Right now is the beginning of the part of the 'winter' when stores get consumed at the fastest rate -- not when it is coldest, but when the bees are trying to build-up in anticipation of spring.


Being aware of this, checking the stores when weather allows, and taking remedial action will prevent many losses.

 

[Chris B]

The root of the problem is that you didn't feed them last autumn, even after pulling them back from the brink then:
http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=20754

Emergency fondant feeding to correct past mistakes (we all make them) is fine but it's essential to make sure the bees are in contact with it. The super on the bottom has made this more difficult in this case. I see a bee inspector advised you to do this - perhaps the advice was given on the assumption there were also stores in the brood box?

 

[itma]

The root of the problem is that you didn't feed them last autumn, even after pulling them back from the brink then:
http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=20754

...

Sadly true.
And you can't say you were not told in September - by which time it was already getting a bit late - and you had discovered that their brood box had absolutely zero stores. (And I do still wonder why that might have been.)

Being tight, I wouldn't have given them back absolutely all the honey! But it is perfectly fair to give them some of the fruits of their labour.
Putting it under will probably result in it being quite quickly moved up into the brood chamber. If (when) they empty all the honey out, you can remove the shallow box. The 14x12 should have plenty capacity for the winter.
BUT, you need to get that brood box well-filled with syrup (and some honey) ASAP.
Your BB having zero stores, the full super will provide only about half their winter needs, so you need to get at least 5kg of sugar (made into heavy syrup) in there, before the weather gets too cold. You might even give them Ambrosia. As I said, I'd have pinched some of the honey - but I'd have repaid that debt, and more, with Ambrosia.
Oh, and don't go cutting down any Ivy for another month or so!

And since you have a slightly under-strength colony, DO fit a reduced entrance (if its not there already) and it would be good to give them insulation in the roof - as early as you can.
Its not wholly true that the smaller colony will need less stores for the winter. They will certainly need more per bee ...

Understrength colony, inadequate stores, in a 14x12 and a half, the big empty box on top ... odds stacked against survival.

 

[Lesley Hoppy]

You are absolutely right to connect the two problems ChrisB - it was the same colony... last year was a huge learning experience for we newbies - after a relatively straightforward previous season...

 

[beeno]

You are absolutely right to connect the two problems ChrisB - it was the same colony... last year was a huge learning experience for we newbies - after a relatively straightforward previous season...

Dear Lesley,
It's all in the detail with bee keeping. Don't be too upset. I always think that there is not a mistake in bee keeping that thousands of people have not made before me.

 

[Lesley Hoppy]

Thanks everyone for all your advice and support. What an invaluable resource this forum is. Yet another lesson learnt and now it is time to get off the computer and go and thoroughly clean up that empty hive ready for some new occupants!

 

[RoofTops]

I have often read here advice about putting over-wintering supers under brood boxes and for some beekeepers it does seem to work. However, left to their own devices bees put their honey in an arc above their brood. I guess this behaviour has developed because it works for the bees. Could be a hint there. Warm air rising and all that.