Why did they do that?

[Terry G]

Definitely an FAQ for me!
So, our main colony swarmed and we rehived them in an old BB with a frame of drawn comb and half a dozen of foundation. They settled in fine and were out foraging and whatever. Then on day six, lots of aerial activity followed by loads of bees wandering anxiously around the landing board. Checked inside: no queen, somewhat fewer bees, some newly drawn comb, no brood, and a couple of queen cells. What I don't understand is why, after six days, she took off, and why she left at least half of the bees behind, queenless and eggless?
Is this 'normal' behaviour?
(BTW we've now united the remaining bees with one of the other colonies)

 

[pargyle]

Definitely an FAQ for me!
So, our main colony swarmed and we rehived them in an old BB with a frame of drawn comb and half a dozen of foundation. They settled in fine and were out foraging and whatever. Then on day six, lots of aerial activity followed by loads of bees wandering anxiously around the landing board. Checked inside: no queen, somewhat fewer bees, some newly drawn comb, no brood, and a couple of queen cells. What I don't understand is why, after six days, she took off, and why she left at least half of the bees behind, queenless and eggless?
Is this 'normal' behaviour?
(BTW we've now united the remaining bees with one of the other colonies)

Too much space for them ? .,.. probably gone to look for a more desirable space .. did you have them dummied down and how many frames did they cover ? Six frames of foundation plus any empty space in the hive is a lot for them to heat ... and they need heat for drawing comb and raising brood - probably decided it was too hard and they are snuggled up in someones bait box ...

Other possibilty ... are you sure you caught a prime swarm from your original hive not a cast ?

 

[Terry G]

Too much space for them ? .,.. probably gone to look for a more desirable space .. did you have them dummied down and how many frames did they cover ? Six frames of foundation plus any empty space in the hive is a lot for them to heat ... and they need heat for drawing comb and raising brood - probably decided it was too hard and they are snuggled up in someones bait box ...

Other possibilty ... are you sure you caught a prime swarm from your original hive not a cast ?

The BB was dummied down and we saw the marked queen when we hived them. They could well have decided they didn't like the accommodation but why after six days? And why didn't they all go?

 

[Hivemaker.]

And why didn't they all go?

Because there would be no bees left to look after the new queens.

 

[pargyle]

The BB was dummied down and we saw the marked queen when we hived them. They could well have decided they didn't like the accommodation but why after six days? And why didn't they all go?

Who knows, comittee just decided that it was up and go time again ? There's lots of forage about and it's been a very swarmy year ... bear in mind that bees reproduce by swarming, if the committee thought that they could leave a vaible colony behind and make another swarm then that's what they do.

HM is on the money though why there were some left behind ... these would have been the nurse bees with perhaps a few foragers... you could have popped them into a Nuc with the queen cells ?

 

[Terry G]

Who knows, comittee just decided that it was up and go time again ? There's lots of forage about and it's been a very swarmy year ... bear in mind that bees reproduce by swarming, if the committee thought that they could leave a vaible colony behind and make another swarm then that's what they do.

HM is on the money though why there were some left behind ... these would have been the nurse bees with perhaps a few foragers... you could have popped them into a Nuc with the queen cells ?

But there was no brood. No eggs to make a new queen, nothing to nurse, that's why it's so odd that bees remained after the queen had gone.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

But there was no brood. No eggs to make a new queen, nothing to nurse, that's why it's so odd that bees remained after the queen had gone.

You said they left a couple of QCs, no?

 

[pargyle]

You said they left a couple of QCs, no?

Beat me to it ... Exactly the point ... Two queen cells ... where were they ... on the bottom of the frames ? Classic ... or are you talking about Queen CUPS ... ie: no grubs or eggs in them ??? Did you check ?

 

[Terry G]

Two queen cups, I should have said - faulty terminology. Nothing in them.

 

[pargyle]

Two queen cups, I should have said - faulty terminology. Nothing in them.

Right ... now the plot thickens ... Back to #002

 

[oliver90owner]

Maybe it was a case of not liking the beekeeper and most of them escaped at the second attempt. Left a few behind to fool you?

 

[Terry G]

Maybe it was a case of not liking the beekeeper and most of them escaped at the second attempt. Left a few behind to fool you?

What, after all the care I lavished on them? I took them in, treated them as one of my own, fed them, clothed them, sent them to college - and this is how they repay me?

 

[pargyle]

What, after all the care I lavished on them? I took them in, treated them as one of my own, fed them, clothed them, sent them to college - and this is how they repay me?

Ahhhh .... Your children have not grown up then ??? In for a nasty shock !!

 

[ellypatt]

Cast swarm, virgin queen went out to mate, never made it home?

 

[pargyle]

Cast swarm, virgin queen went out to mate, never made it home?

That's where I was coming from at Post #002 ....but the OP says he saw the marked queen in the original swarm so ... the original swarm must have swarmed ...

 

[Terry G]

Definitely saw the marked queen.
I'm beginning to wonder if some harm befell her after she was hived and the swarm was left queenless.

 

[pargyle]

Definitely saw the marked queen.
I'm beginning to wonder if some harm befell her after she was hived and the swarm was left queenless.

Well .... if you had lost the queen then there would still be all the rest of the swarm there not half the bees... without a queen of some sort they would not swarm and they would just hang about feeding themselves until the colony died out ... might see a few DLW before they reached that stage ... if there were only half the bees left then they probably swarmed with the marked queen heading up the swarm ... Post #002

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Your answer is at centre-right of p202 of the (June) BBKA news in the middle of an outstanding article by Michael Palmer.

 

[Terry G]

Your answer is at centre-right of p202 of the (June) BBKA news in the middle of an outstanding article by Michael Palmer.

How very interesting (for those without BBKA June, the postulation is that the bees were absconding, not swarming, due to difficulty in controlling the temperature within the hive with such a small colony).
That certainly fits my scenario as the weather down here in the GoE was up in the 20s that week. One difference, though, is that Palmer was dealing with nuclei whereas mine were in a Langstroth BB (or Llangstroth for our Welsh readers); however, mine was dummied down to six frames which is probably much the same thing. It would certainly explain the absence of a cast in the immediate locality, and the bewildered looking bees left behind. I think TTLTB might have found the smoking gun.

 

[pargyle]

How very interesting (for those without BBKA June, the postulation is that the bees were absconding, not swarming, due to difficulty in controlling the temperature within the hive with such a small colony).
.

Probably right ... POST #002 .... whether it's too warm or too cold, space in the hive should always reflect the size of the colony.

Insulation can be the answer ... well insulated hives reduce the need for bees to counter wildly varying temperatures ...whilst it has been hot during the day temperatures have dropped overnight particularly when it has rained ... I note from my hive temperature monitoring, at present, they are maintaining a pretty steady 26 degrees day and night ... but they are in a heavily insulated hive.