Why are bees building comb in the apiguard eke?

[Smallbeehive]

Well I put my second tray of Apiguard on a few days ago and had some issues when I removed the crown board as there was loads of comb and bees's above the frames in the eke gap and it all broke as I twisted the crown board drowning and covering bee's and the sides of the hive, also took me a while to smoke all the bee's down.

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I have added pictures of some of the comb at the edges but the majority of the comb is in the middle and I didn't want to remove the crown board completely and cause any more problems so I twisted as much as needed to put apiguard on and put hive back together.

The thing is the bee's have frames in the brood box that they haven't used, there are at least a frame at either edge with wax foundation that seem untouched.

Advice please as what to do in this situation as the eke is on for at least another 2 weeks and no doubt they will make more up there and cause more future issues when opening again near the the end of October.

 

[Ian123]

You’ve obviously got a little coming in and bees are doing ok just push any empty frames up against the brood area to encourage them to use/fill. Still may not stop them building and would suggest a little feed to get those frames drawn a bit quicker. Would wait till that eke is off before feeding though

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Are you feeding? or is there a good ivy flow on?
You've given the bees a couple of inches extra space so if the materials are around they'll make full use of it - the bees will always work from the top down if given the opportunity
You also need to replace those silly bits of mesh you have over the porter holes with something solid, like a thin lath of plywood, tile, or roof slate.

 

[Smallbeehive]

Thanks for the reply's

Yes I did have some feed on and yes there is loads of Ivy here and loads of beds of Sedum in flower.

The question I was wandering the most is what do I do in 2-3 weeks time when I have to open up again?

Leave the comb, leave the eke on for winter? it's gonna cause casualties and spillages having the comb like this every time I open.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The question I was wandering the most is what do I do in 2-3 weeks time when I have to open up again?

scrape it all off with a hive tool, put it above the crown board for them to take the honey down.

 

[bingevader]

Well I put my second tray of Apiguard on a few days ago and had some issues when I removed the crown board as there was loads of comb and bees's above the frames in the eke gap and it all broke as I twisted the crown board drowning and covering bee's and the sides of the hive, also took me a while to smoke all the bee's down.

Don't twist.
The whole lot should just lift off and then you'll avoid any damage.
If not, and they've stuck the comb to the frames, then you should be able to loosen it with your hive tool.
What you do after that is up to you.
As usual, this will probably depend on how many hives you have and how much bee home improvement you want to put up with.
You can remove the lot and hope they don't start again before the treatment is finished.
Or you could leave it on and they'll fill it as extra feed for the winter.
We had a similar "problem" early this spring with an eke we'd left on a bit longer than intended after some winter fondant.
It was a rather impressive bit of comb and every time we returned it was either full of stores or brood.
The hive did well, so when we took some honey, we took the crown board too and harvested that as well.
I'll find the picture.

 

[Ian123]

You just pick a good day and open up the hive and tidy up you really won’t cause the bees any issues. If it were me I would be more concerned about getting those empty frames drawn and filled

 

[bingevader]

Clearly, it's not something you'd want to do if you had lots of hives you needed to inspect, but for the hobbyist amongst us, it really isn't a problem, certainly not for the bees anyway!

 

[bingevader]

Pic not uploading...

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Don't seem to be able to post a link from Google photos?

 

[enrico]

Find a nice thin bit of wire. Use it like a cheese cutter slowly pulling it from one side to the other between the eke and the brood box. It may take many minutes to do. You will have to lift one side of the eke slightly to get it started. It helps to do it with two people, one to hold the hive. When done, lift clear and remove the treatment. Then you can either turn the whole thing upside down and let them clean it or break it off in pieces. Watch for the queen though!!!!!!!!
E

 

[drex]

They are getting food which they need to store, so they are building comb. Unfortunately that is in the eke, where it is warmest, hence easiest place to draw comb. Put an empty frame of foundation next to either side of the brood, where it will be warm, and they will draw that. I would scrape off the burr comb and chuck it, and while the eke has to be on fill up some of that empty space with wood etc. Block off those holes in the crow board and have insulation on top of it.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Clearly, it's not something you'd want to do if you had lots of hives you needed to inspect, but for the hobbyist amongst us, it really isn't a problem, certainly not for the bees anyway!

Not until the spring - when the queen is laying up in that burr comb and gets killed when you finally crack the crown board and the whole lot turns to ratsh!t.
I'm afraid that's poor advice to give anyone, let alone a total novice

 

[linoleum bonypart]

There won't be anywhere warm in that hive with mesh vents like that

 

[Ian123]

Vents or not the bees are building up there because it’s warmer rather than his outer frames!!

 

[Swarm]

Well I put my second tray of Apiguard on a few days ago and had some issues when I removed the crown board as there was loads of comb and bees's above the frames in the eke gap and it all broke as I twisted the crown board drowning and covering bee's and the sides of the hive, also took me a while to smoke all the bee's down.

The thing is the bee's have frames in the brood box that they haven't used, there are at least a frame at either edge with wax foundation that seem untouched.

Advice please as what to do in this situation as the eke is on for at least another 2 weeks and no doubt they will make more up there and cause more future issues when opening again near the the end of October.

You need to manipulate foundation frames in order to encourage the bees to draw them out. When people say about putting the foundation next to the brood, they mean place it between the brood comb and the stores comb/s. This is a warmer position and the bees do not like the gap so will do something about it.

 

[Smallbeehive]

I think I may have a huge huge issue will post photos in a minute, there is syrup leaking out of the hive from every crack, the inspection board is full of syrup, the floor under the hive has huge puddles of syrup on it. Dead bee's covered is syrup outside the hive I am concerned about the hive and the Queen at this point. I have had no feed in there for a few days so it must be coming from their stores which I damaged and they are now breaking down completely and pouring through the hive and I know the bee's completely went off and ignored the syrup/feed for at least 6 days last time when Apiguard first went on. I can't open the hive it's pouring with rain and windy and I am worried I might do more damage if I do. Is it possible the bee's can sort this mess out themselves?

 

[enrico]

Yes but you must watch for robbing. If you have wasps or other hives nearby they will go for it too!
The bees don't want there stores out in the open so they will soon hoover it up. A little syrup looks alot when running out.....bit like blood!
E

 

[drex]

As per enrico, the bees will sort it. It is getting late to be messing around in hives. Mine are all tucked up for winter. Try not to worry about the queen, she will likely be fine, if she does get syrup on her the workers will soon groom it off. Anyway, if she is gone, there is little you can do about it now.
Feeding is a balancing act. I tended to overdo it in my early days

 

[bingevader]

Not until the spring - when the queen is laying up in that burr comb and gets killed when you finally crack the crown board and the whole lot turns to ratsh!t.
I'm afraid that's poor advice to give anyone, let alone a total novice

That's your opinion and, as always, you are entitled to it.
Trying to advise novices that natural phenomena are not disasters and that there are always alternative methods to deal with any perceived problem, to me anyway, seems like a sensible thing to do.
Just because it is different, it doesn't mean it is poor.
His error was in twisting, I have already tried to advise on that.
Sadly too late in this instance as it's clearly left a mess, hopefully he won't do it again and others will learn from this.
Clearly, if we leave any space in a hive, there is a possibility that the bees will build comb in it and we should be prepared for that.
That's a message for all novices isn't it?
We've encountered comb attached to the crown board above an eke, as elsewhere in the hive, on numerous occasions, it really isn't a disaster if you know how to handle it.
And really, there's no mystery or magic to it, it's just about being gentle with the bees.
Shouldn't we be encouraging that anyway?
Yes, clearing it off immediately is a solution, it isn't the only solution.
Once you know the comb is there, then it is significantly less dangerous to the queen to inspect, than pulling out every brood frame each week!
As you can see from the picture, no ratsh!t, perfectly formed comb and I can assure you, queen intact.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

That's your opinion and, as always, you are entitled to it.

we are all entitled to our opinions - as you are entitled to the wrong one.