Why are bees building comb in the apiguard eke?

[Erichalfbee]

Dealing with an eke full of comb in the spring is challenging.
It’s easier to deal with it now, especially if you are a beginner

 

[Curly green finger's]

@smallbeehive you've got some sound advice here about removing the brais comb , I wanted to say thanks for the clear photo's as this thread has been very informative .

 

[Smallbeehive]

Yeah thanks everyone for advice and opinions it's been a multitude of errors and beginner mistakes for me in my short start at beekeeping but I surely will learn from them and hopefully my bee's are tough and the damage done so far isn't detrimental to their survival.

The mesh on the crown board isn't permanent it's to make that hole smaller for now while feed is on but to still allow bee's up to take the feed down and some frames I have above. I also have a thick Acrylic clear crown board and 100mm of Kingspan above this so no heat being lost through them.

After listening to all the advice I came up with a plan of building an eke 15mm high just enough to cover the apiguard tray the current one is 50mm. Open up in the next few days remove 50mm eke and replace with 15mm one remove comb as best I can being careful to lift & not twist crown board and try to limit damage as much as I can whilst I do this, move the untouched frames on edges nearer the middle of brood box. Feed whats left of the comb back to the bee's and hopefully this will all go OK and I wont have to disturb them again until really needed.

Does this sound like the best action to take?

 

[drex]

That sounds good. Is 15 MM. enough to allow the bees to get into the Apiguard tray? That is how it works, by them getting to it and removing it. Thornes one is 40 MM. deep, which to me is a bit too much. The ideal is one the depth of an apiguard tray+ a bee space.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

That sounds good. Is 15 MM. enough to allow the bees to get into the Apiguard tray? That is how it works, by them getting to it and removing it. Thornes one is 40 MM. deep, which to me is a bit too much. The ideal is one the depth of an apiguard tray+ a bee space.

 

[enrico]

There are always arguements for and against certain methods. Ok twisting the crown board on this occasion was probably the cause of the broken comb but..... I always twist my crown board and supers before removing them. I always have and I probably always will. I find it allows a clean lift. If twisting is not done then it is so easy to lift the frames of the box underneath which causes bees to be rolled etc etc. Everybody to their own
E

 

[Erichalfbee]

Top space is the answer to having to twist crown boards off. That or putting them on rim down

 

[bingevader]

After listening to all the advice I came up with a plan of building an eke 15mm high just enough to cover the apiguard tray the current one is 50mm. Open up in the next few days remove 50mm eke and replace with 15mm one remove comb as best I can being careful to lift & not twist crown board and try to limit damage as much as I can whilst I do this, move the untouched frames on edges nearer the middle of brood box. Feed whats left of the comb back to the bee's and hopefully this will all go OK and I wont have to disturb them again until really needed.

Does this sound like the best action to take?

Possibly! I first tried 15mm on the Warre and it wasn't enough. Not all of the apiguard got taken and some bees got trapped in the tray. I think it was because the tray is thin aluminium and not rigid, so you can't guarantee the bee space. Maybe 20mm?
I hope that is helpful.

 

[bingevader]

Dealing with an eke full of comb in the spring is challenging.
It’s easier to deal with it now, especially if you are a beginner

Not really, honestly, I don't do anything that is particularly challenging!
But by all means, people should remove the comb if you want to.
It appears, my opinion is the only one that is wrong, even thought the photo would seem to prove otherwise.

 

[bingevader]

There are always arguements for and against certain methods. Ok twisting the crown board on this occasion was probably the cause of the broken comb but..... I always twist my crown board and supers before removing them. I always have and I probably always will. I find it allows a clean lift. If twisting is not done then it is so easy to lift the frames of the box underneath which causes bees to be rolled etc etc. Everybody to their own
E

Others are arguing, I'm just trying to suggest alternatives!
I would totally agree with the need to twist supers if frames are stuck.
I've just never had the need to twist a crown board, especially when an eke is on.
AND, because I know there maybe be comb in the eke, I definitely do not twist the crown board.
I just crack it with the hive tool and gently invert it so that no harm is done to bee or comb.
It can then be placed aside out of harm's way until re-inverted and replaced once inspection is finished.
Obviously, if there's brood in there, you need to check for the queen, but a quick puff of smoke or breath will clear the small amount of comb easily.
This can simply continue all season, it's not difficult, honest. I'm no master beekeeper/haver.
Some may not like it, but you can't deny it is easily possible, I've already posted the photo.

 

[bingevader]

we are all entitled to our opinions - as you are entitled to the wrong one.

I've made no opinion, I've stated what I do and proved that it works.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I just crack it with the hive tool and gently invert it so that no harm is done to bee or comb.
It can then be placed aside out of harm's way until re-inverted and replaced once inspection is finished..

Yes if the comb has been built solely from the crown board but what if it bridges the whole eke from top bars to crown? Which is what usually happens

 

[Swarm]

It's still stupid advice for a novice.

 

[bingevader]

Yes if the comb has been built solely from the crown board but what if it bridges the whole eke from top bars to crown? Which is what usually happens

I'm sorry, but that hasn't been my experience.
This isn't the first time and won't be the last.
I did say, that if it was fixed to the super, that you might have to free it with your hive tool, but nevermind.
I seemed to be failing abysmally in suggesting an alternative, even though I know it works.
But hey, as I have said twice already, just remove the comb if you want to!

 

[bingevader]

It's still stupid advice for a novice.

Which bit?
Not to twist a crown board when there might be comb in it because an eke has been in place?
Or is it just the general, "Thou must not do anything that isn't in the handbook"?
Then which hand book?
And does that mean your handook is always right and everything else is always wrong?
Yep, if you've 20 hives, I can imagine it would be a pain in the behind.
But why not acknowledge that there are different ways to do anything?
It's simple and easy to do.
And in our case has provided a whole lot of extra learning for the children in school.
Win-win for us and the bees and no reason for us to do anything differently.
I'm not suggesting that this is in anyway innovative, but it is a crying shame that again, anything different is ridiculed on this forum.
Still smiling.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Now calm down everybody.....please

 

[Swarm]

Why bother with frames at all? All manner of fun.

 

[bingevader]

Now calm down everybody.....please

I'm calm, still smiling
Interestingly though, just because there are novices out there, it doesn't mean they are unintelligent.
Why not suggest alternatives and let them make their own minds up?
If something works, how can it be wrong?

 

[bingevader]

Why bother with frames at all? All manner of fun.

No need for extremes now.
Because in answer to that, I could just suggest that we stop using ekes at all - no treatment?!
We've introduced a small space into the hive, the bees have dealt with it as they wish, there are different ways to manage that.
By all means, break it down if that's what you have always done, doesn't mean everyone else has to do the same.

 

[Murox]

It seems to me that this thread is full of good advice trying to remedy/make good a basic fault in design. We all know/should know about what bees do when we manipulate/interfere with their BEESPACE, as do/should manufacturers of various beekeeping products.
Why make something that requires a void space -an eke- in order to use the product for a period of time which violates beespace?
I suppose there are also other factors such as 'flow' or feeding and weather that might determine whether or not they make comb to consider; nevertheless we should not be surprised if bees build in or gum up spaces that violate their beespace.
I have used the cheese wire idea in the past and the twist - they work - but I have nearly always discovered that I have somehow invaded the bees space or created a void which they filled.