Which Type of Bees

[MJB]

Ive started reading/ researching on the type of Bee i should be thinking of putting in my hive. Having not done this before I'm still learning and will also use my local club for information on what they use.

I know any bee can be nasty if presented with a threat but id like to hear from you on some suggestions. - Im sure this is a loaded question but for a newbie id just like to learn from information and then make the informed choice.

I read that Buckfast are a great bee and I'm reading that Blackbees can be aggressive so I'm looking for recommendations.

Thank you

 

[BrianO]

Ive started reading/ researching on the type of Bee i should be thinking of putting in my hive. Having not done this before I'm still learning and will also use my local club for information on what they use.

I know any bee can be nasty if presented with a threat but id like to hear from you on some suggestions. - Im sure this is a loaded question but for a newbie id just like to learn from information and then make the informed choice.

I read that Buckfast are a great bee and I'm reading that Blackbees can be aggressive so I'm looking for recommendations.

Thank you

BOOM ! Hats on.. Incoming .. Natives for me, all the way. Important to preserve the Genetics of our Native Bee . Others will contend is already diluted ,but still believe , here anyway we have precious AMM genetics to preserve.

As for aggressive, not necessarily, through understanding in relation to management,handling and breeding, a more docile trait can be nurtured.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Your local association will undoubtedly point you in the direction of what is a "local" bee. If they have a teaching apiary they will probably be able to supply you with a nuc.That's as good a way as any to start.
I like my Buckfast and I have one colony but I have to replace the queen regularly rather than breed them myself as they do get tetchy after two generations.
I keep the daughter but after that it's back to Hivemaker

Carniolans are gentle but can be very prolific so they need active management in my opinion. I am trying a Carnie queen for the first time this year, after ten years of keeping bees.
My first colony was a nuc of Carnies that I bought while waiting for one from my local association. I didn't have a clue how quickly they would take off and I lost them very quickly

Good luck

 

[Finman]

.
Buy several bees and compare

.

 

[MJB]

BOOM ! Hats on.. Incoming .. Natives for me, all the way. Important to preserve the Genetics of our Native Bee . Others will contend is already diluted ,but still believe , here anyway we have precious AMM genetics to preserve.

As for aggressive, not necessarily, through understanding in relation to management,handling and breeding, a more docile trait can be nurtured.

I knew it would be so I'm preparing for an onslaught! but you have to learn and you guys are knowledgeable which is great.

I assume you mean Apis mellifera mellifera as this is the only honeybee native to Ireland and the UK, and It is commonly known as the black bee, the dark bee, the native bee or simply Amm ?

Id be very happy to support Apis mellifera mellifera and i believe my Club Mentor said he has Black bees

 

[Little John]

Sod AMM - at one point I even considered breeding them and purchased some queens from N.Ireland - their behaviour turned out to be worse that the buggers I already had. Sixty quid light and two years of my life wasted - never again.

Beekeeping (as a hobby) is supposed to be enjoyable - so - Carnies and Carnie-crosses for me. Inspections are now a breeze and an activity to look forward to - and without dressing-up like a medieval knight.

You do need to give 'em plenty of room, else they'll be "over the hills and far away" - but it's just a question of learning how to work with them.

Suggestion - whichever type of bee you're interested in, go visit the source apiary and watch an inspection. Then consider whether that way of working is for you ...
LJ

 

[MJB]

Sod AMM - at one point I even considered breeding them and purchased some queens from N.Ireland - their behaviour turned out to be worse that the buggers I already had. Sixty quid light and two years of my life wasted - never again.

Beekeeping (as a hobby) is supposed to be enjoyable - so - Carnies and Carnie-crosses for me. Inspections are now a breeze and an activity to look forward to - and without dressing-up like a medieval knight.

You do need to give 'em plenty of room, else they'll be "over the hills and far away" - but it's just a question of learning how to work with them.

Suggestion - whichever type of bee you're interested in, go visit the source apiary and watch an inspection. Then consider whether that way of working is for you ...
LJ

I'd agree that its meant to be enjoyable and i read that some research was done suggesting that overly aggressive Bees were thought to be less productive as they spent more time defending/attacking than producing stores- sort of makes sense to me.

The last thing id want is to be put off by aggression so i will take that into account - Albeit i do understand that in the right circumstances any could be nasty.

 

[BrianO]

Sod AMM - at one point I even considered breeding them and purchased some queens from N.Ireland - their behaviour turned out to be worse that the buggers I already had. Sixty quid light and two years of my life wasted - never again.

Beekeeping (as a hobby) is supposed to be enjoyable - so - Carnies and Carnie-crosses for me. Inspections are now a breeze and an activity to look forward to - and without dressing-up like a medieval knight.

You do need to give 'em plenty of room, else they'll be "over the hills and far away" - but it's just a question of learning how to work with them.

Suggestion - whichever type of bee you're interested in, go visit the source apiary and watch an inspection. Then consider whether that way of working is for you ...
LJ

Hi John

OK, hear ya, and have a couple of hives like that in line to be re queened, but ..... and maybe it is just what I am used to.

I do not find them overly aggressive, sometimes depending on external conditions, or manipulation can be a bit tetchy, but overall would have to say on a scale of 1-10 would average out at a 5 in relation to level of aggression. Again maybe I am conditioned to their behaviour in general.

Though to be honest last season amongst the swarms I caught, one was a clearly imported breed, possibly italians. Very yellow in colouration and the Queen was incredibly pale/cream. Was absolutely astounded at their docility, foraging capabilities in inclement weather and honey yield.

Flies in the face of my convictions expressed above, which presently anyway I stand by in the name of preservation of our native fauna.

 

[madasafish]

You have to realise that whatever type of bee you end up with, their queen will live about two years and their descendants will be the product of the local bees (whatever they are) so after about 3 years your original bloodline will be diluted and you end up with mongrels.

So choose something good tempered and easily manged.

If you are a newcomer to beekeeping carniolans are very gentle but the colony in spring expands very quickly and they will swarm - unless you know how to handle swarming.

Buckfast are placid and less prone to swarm.

AMM? - see paragraph 1.. A pipe dream unless lots of others nearby have them..

Practical experience ? Good tempered mongrels are as good as anything..

 

[Swarm]

I think your mentor is the best person to ask this advice from.

Whatever your choice, just remember (as pointed out by Erichalfbee) you won't keep them pure without II or isolated mating sites.

Any colony can potentially become a problem, it's not something peculiar only to amm and it is usually introduced traits from unknown matings. Ask your mentor to show you a colony of tetchy bees before you get your own so you have some idea of what they can be like. It's not nice and it can be quite intimidating, especially when they know their strength.

Worst bees I've had were ginger, just thought I'd say

 

[For want of a better word]

I think your mentor is the best person to ask this advice from.

Whatever your choice, just remember (as pointed out by Erichalfbee) you won't keep them pure without II or isolated mating sites.

Any colony can potentially become a problem, it's not something peculiar only to amm and it is usually introduced traits from unknown matings. Ask your mentor to show you a colony of tetchy bees before you get your own so you have some idea of what they can be like. It's not nice and it can be quite intimidating, especially when they know their strength.

Worst bees I've had were ginger, just thought I'd say

Get bees that are suited to you environmental conditions.

Aggression from any type of bee can be down to the way the beekeeper acts around them, the time of day, the weather.

Yeghes da

 

[B+.]

I think your mentor is the best person to ask this advice from.

Whatever your choice, just remember (as pointed out by Erichalfbee) you won't keep them pure without II or isolated mating sites.

Spot on!

I'd agree with most (if not all) of the advice given above.

As a beginner, you're unlikely to have access to II (instrumental insemination) equipment but the same effect can be achieved by importing your queen from an island mating station. People have a view that these are for specialists and are too expensive for Joe-bloggs beekeeper but this really isn't true.
This is probably a year or two down the line though so the best suggestion is probably just get used to your local mongrels for a couple of years. Then, when you have a bit more experience, consider investing in better stock.

 

[linoleum bonypart]

No one mentioned hygienic bees -
Haha

 

[Little John]

Hi John

OK, hear ya, and have a couple of hives like that in line to be re queened, but ..... and maybe it is just what I am used to.

I think one of the major problems is that pure, (or at least pure-ish) AMM are being bred in the South, but there's no easy way to obtain these.
Indeed, one of my major criticisms of BIBBA is that they have no mechanism for distribution of well-behaved AMM - they apparently don't think it's their business to make queens available.

So - what's a fella supposed to do ?

Without realising it, I bought queens from a guy in the North who has been open-mating Galtee and Pat D'easy strains right next door to gawd knows what else for a few years. But - as he believes in 100% Apiary Vicinity Mating, he's then flogging these as pure-bred.

That's why I say to anyone buying a strain (of anything) for the first time - don't trust the sales-pitch and buy on trust - take yourself off to the source apiary and have a looksee, if possible.
LJ

 

[BrianO]

I think one of the major problems is that pure, (or at least pure-ish) AMM are being bred in the South, but there's no easy way to obtain these.
Indeed, one of my major criticisms of BIBBA is that they have no mechanism for distribution of well-behaved AMM - they apparently don't think it's their business to make queens available.

So - what's a fella supposed to do ?

Without realising it, I bought queens from a guy in the North who has been open-mating Galtee and Pat D'easy strains right next door to gawd knows what else for a few years. But - as he believes in 100% Apiary Vicinity Mating, he's then flogging these as pure-bred.

That's why I say to anyone buying a strain (of anything) for the first time - don't trust the sales-pitch and buy on trust - take yourself off to the source apiary and have a looksee, if possible.
LJ

Yeah, absolutely. Would agree, see what you are getting, are they as Michael Palmer eloquently puts it, intent on " Stapling your socks to your ankles " ?

Buyer beware.

 

[MJB]

Great Reading...Thanks thus far.....

 

[For want of a better word]

Indeed, one of my major criticisms of BIBBA is that they have no mechanism for distribution of well-behaved AMM - they apparently don't think it's their business to make queens available

I presume you mean EIRE when you say South.......

Here in Cornwall we have BIPCo which is closely allied to the many other bee improvement and native bee breeding groups across the British isles..... many are also BIBBA members

Does not BIBBA encourage members to breed their own bees from the best of the native bees available to beekeepers in their region?
Maybe that is why it is called Bee Improvement and Bee Breeders Association?

I do not know of any "groups" who sell bees except perhaps to other local beekeepers... although it is possible to obtain queens from some breeders who import Amm???? from Europe.

Get yourself along to one of the two day BIBBA bee breeding and bee improvement training days being run across the UK this season.

Yeghes da

 

[drex]

I go with B+ above. I started off with a nuc given to me( no charge) by our local assoc - I had attended their beginners course. I stuck with local mongrels for a few years, then bought a couple of Buckfasts. Soon back to local mongrels, the behaviour of which I have been improving for last few years.
Recently attended a BIBBA talk from Roger Patterson, and found what he suggested " for simple methods" was not far off what I had already been doing.
Apart from the two Buckfast queens I have never bought in any bees, and am happy with what I have - but still working on improving them overall.
From a hobbyist viewpoint, improvement of the stocks you have need not be complicated. I am not intending to breed any " super bees" by the way. That I leave to the professionals.
So I suggest you go with what your local assoc has to offer, and see where you want to go in a year or two
However, each to his own.

 

[Quis Custodiet]

Hi John

Though to be honest last season amongst the swarms I caught, one was a clearly imported breed, possibly italians. Very yellow in colouration and the Queen was incredibly pale/cream. Was absolutely astounded at their docility, foraging capabilities in inclement weather and honey yield.

Flies in the face of my convictions expressed above, which presently anyway I stand by in the name of preservation of our native fauna.

May I suggest it was a swarm of Buckfast bees and not Italians. Italian queens often have a reddish tinge on their legs and the colony will eat you out of house and home! Did they need much in the way of winter stores?
It was probably the original queen so she is likely to be long in the tooth now and near the end of her productive life.
As for AMM in Ireland; are the stocks there native or are they descended from bees imported after the IOW disease? Despite all their boasting of being involved with university research into Irish AMM DNA, the Irish native bee society will not release any information or answer that question............draw your own conclusions. Incidentally I agree with preserving our native bees, if they exist.

 

[BrianO]

May I suggest it was a swarm of Buckfast bees and not Italians. Italian queens often have a reddish tinge on their legs and the colony will eat you out of house and home! Did they need much in the way of winter stores?
It was probably the original queen so she is likely to be long in the tooth now and near the end of her productive life.
As for AMM in Ireland; are the stocks there native or are they descended from bees imported after the IOW disease? Despite all their boasting of being involved with university research into Irish AMM DNA, the Irish native bee society will not release any information or answer that question............draw your own conclusions. Incidentally I agree with preserving our native bees, if they exist.

Hi

They could well be.
To be honest I have not given them the that much attention, bar the usual treating, providing space etc. As they are a single colony away from my two main Apiaries.
Could well have been the original queen, but in 2016 right up to the last inspection she was a prolific layer.
As for eating me out of House and Home. No, they rammed the brood box with stores , filled a super and a half of Multifloral and then a further super and half of Ivy . Drew out the Brood box completely bar one drawn frame they went on when they arrived. To get to that rammed stage, in conjunction with their foraging I had fed them in Autumn 1&1/2 to 2 gals of 2:1 Syrup
Cant fault them, but if I was to Don my Donald Trump Beesuit I would be calling them Non Native and therefore not Irish AMM or taking your IOW point on board , not as much as we can hope for in our current Black AMM residents.