what went wrong?

[DaveS]

Hi

2 weeks ago last saturday I inspected my sole hive to find swarm cells. Good news as I wanted to increase to 2

Duly moved hive and put red queen on frame into new hive on old site with syrup (no q cells). She is fine so let's forget about her.

In the old hive chose an open q cell and destroyed the rest. Closed up.

The following saturday 6 days later opened up old hive and found very full and lots of sealed q cells. As I was in the middle of a bailey change and old q had been laying in both boxes decided to hedge bets and split. So one hive with previously selected q cell and other hive with 2 sealed q cells (poss mistake). Destroyed all othe q cells (I think!).

Left alone to this day.

On monday - 9 days after doing the split my wife reports a swarm 50m away from the hives. I have to accept that these were my bees - never seen a swarm ever but they had gone by the time I got home.

So I guess I am confused about how this swarm is possible - 9 days after sealing (at least) but also from a colony significantly weakened by splitting 3 ways.

Want to learn from my mistakes so any feedback appreciated.

Thanks

 

[Chris B]

2 mistakes:

You know it - leaving 2 sealed queen cells. Almost guarantees a swarm.

Secondly the 6 day gap is not enough. They still had 3 day old larvae at that point and can make new queen cells from them. 2 days later they are sealed queen cells (Monday), at which point the older virgin(s) have hatched and swarmed. Another week later and more virgins are hatching and further swarm(s)

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The 'extra' QC's you found after six days would be emergency QC's built after the split - in future, mark the frame with your selected QC during the A/S then go in three or four days later and destroy any new ones formed,check again in a week just to make sure there would be no need then for a further split (there was no need anyway, as there was no queen in the second hive you could have just knocked all unwantred QC's off.
What size was the swarm - could have been a cast from the second split - hard to tell

 

[oliver90owner]

No open cells to leave one? That would have been a mistake if there were and there should have been , if she was still laying at the A/S. If she was not still laying at the A/S, then that could be conceivably put down as a mistake in waiting a full six days before checking for extra queen cells..

Where was the box with two queen cells wrt the box with only the single queen cell? Room for a mistake there.

Possibly not considering that all that extra brood present, at the original A/S, would have emerged by around that time and that the weather was very suited to swarming, along with reports all over the place about it being a very prolific period for swarms, etc, etc. could all have contrived to represent a mistake.

Only thinking you destroyed all other cells was a mistake. You needed to be certain.

Of course, it may not have been from your hive? Assuming leads to mistakes.

Apart from that, not a lot you could have done to avoid the situation.

 

[Eyeman]

For those of you who want to leave x2 QCs in rather than just x1.
Make sure you keep moving the hive from one side of the old queen old site box to the other side. Deplete the hive with the 2 QCs of flying bees and they are much less likely to swarm.
Downside is there may not be enough bees left behind to cover the brood.
Alec

 

[Finman]

.
Your first job was To make AS Into Foundation box.
Culling Queen cells Does not stop swarming. Old story.

 

[DaveS]

Thanks all.

Finman I did do an AS and then a second split - I didn't just destroy the q cells to avoid a swarm. It seems leaving 2 was a mistake and not inspecting again after day 6 although I am limited to weekends. I thought also effectively spltting 3 ways would have helped avoid swarming.

On the timing point if there were still viable larvae at 3 days old (my day 6 inspection) they would have been sealed a few days later and emerge 10 days from my inspection - but my other sealed cells would have emerged on the sunday at latest. Sunday was a nice day as were previous days so on emegence would there have been a cast swarm rather than on the last date it was possible for emergence?