what to feed bees low on food

[Poly Hive]

Uniting hives.

The classic advice is to take your winter hit in autumn, or in other words unite to avoid losses.

weak colonies united together remain weak, just a bit bigger. If there is a shortage of bees then the colony is going to struggle and if the colony is weak by reason of poor genes then they are never going to pull ahead. Worse in autumn there just is not time for TLC to succeed with them.

So you want to unite. First of all harden you heart and decide which ones you are going to do the deed to and work out your plan.

In this situation kill the queen physically. Why? The last thing you want is for the queens to fight and to lose either both of the one you want to keep, so I take control and do it myself. If you can't find her then that is a risk you have to take.

I always put the weak colony on the bottom, some do the opposite, and put two layers of newspaper between them. I stab a couple of places with the corner of my hive tool so as to give the bees a start, as they are unable to chew on smooth paper.

Then I give them a week, and at that point sort out combs and stores and so on.

PH

 

[Dishmop]

Rab gives some of the best advice on the forum and yet when he posts one slightly vague reply certain members feel the need to deliver a full character assasination

Nobody was attempting a character assasination regarding Rab's reply.
Nobody said that Rab was wrong in his reply.

I just asked Rab to expand on his reply because it could confuse,, and indeed it has confused because people are still replying seemingly under the impression that Rab meant to unite weak colonies together. I know that that is not what he meant, but for the benefit of those who might (and did) misunderstand him I asked him to state what a weak colony, in this case, one which appeared to be without adequate stores, should be united to.

My complaint was the way in which Rab reacted by saying that anybody who couldnt understand what he had written was stupid and couldnt read.

 

[Cazza]

I always put the weak colony on the bottom, some do the opposite, and put two layers of newspaper between them. I stab a couple of places with the corner of my hive tool so as to give the bees a start, as they are unable to chew on smooth paper.

PH

Thanks PH, sound advice delivered without barbs.

I am a do the opposite and put the weak colony on the top. I imagine it makes very little difference either way? My thinking is that it allows the strong colony to carry on with the foraging.
Hey ho, each to her own.
Cazza

 

[For want of a better word]

Surely uniting a weak colony with a not quite so week one and feeding well throughout the lean winter months would give them a chance of making it through to requeening in the first honey flow of spring?

I am doing just that now.... and with a nuke of decent bees likely to top £200 next spring it has got to bee worth a try?

 

[RoseCottage]

So if I have two weakish colonies that are in that way because they have been split late in.the season say wouldn't you want to combine them?
Without wishing to rake over coals...I am still a little unsure about 'weak'. I am most likely to render my colonies weak through mismanagement I think than by buying poor stock, or so I think.

I intend to split my 2 to 4 next spring and then combine at the end of summer. I just want to keep a steady, affordable, manageable set of colonies. I want to avoid the exponential growth, and if possible control swarming.
When is a good time to combine?
Sam

 

[Poly Hive]

It is difficult to explain weak.

However...

When there are not enough bees to support the queen, whether through accident or poor genetics, or disease, or beekeeper error then a colony cannot thrive.

As I posted last night if you unite two weak colonies together all you have is a bigger weak colony just as much at risk as if you hadn't. Why? Because there is an imbalance between the brood, nurse bees and foragers. It is just the same in spring when the dwindle effect is happening and the unit is unable to break the cycle of bees dying off in relation to bees hatching, and if they equal each other then no progress is possible.

Being able to diagnose a colony as weak is something that really comes with experience.

Having said all of the above if you have two really poor units, then there is nothing to be lost in uniting. If you lose them separately or together they are still lost so take a punt on it.

As for £200 for a nuc. I doubt it.

PH

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

Guys,

Let's grow up a bit. Why are you trying to snatch up any opportunity that you get to have a snipe? Rab gives some of the best advice on the forum and yet when he posts one slightly vague reply certain members feel the need to deliver a full character assasination. Why don't you guys get down to writing some useful posts yourself rather than just waiting for the moments when you see an opportunity to get one up over someone who (in beekeeping knowledge) is infallible.
Admittedly Rab can occassionally assume that everyone is as vastly experienced and as knowledgable as he is, but I believe that his outstandingly detailed posts massively overwrites whatever faults you guys try to find.

Ben P

But to get back to the thread - thanks PH, like Rosecottage I was confused why combining two weak colonies would make one bigger weak colony, but your explanation makes sense. I guess its still something that can be tried if there is no alternative.

 

[oliver90owner]

I was confused why combining two weak colonies would make one bigger weak colony

Monsieur Abeille,

Read my reply to 'borderer', in post #10. Says it all, or most of it.

BTW, don't just look at the ingredients, consider the product. Much more sensible way to go.

Regards, RAB

 

[Dishmop]

Having said all of the above if you have two really poor units, then there is nothing to be lost in uniting. If you lose them separately or together they are still lost so take a punt on it.

I agree that nothing would be lost but would anything be gained by rearranging the frames (if possible)so that as much stores as possible are at the top?

 

[Frithgar]

I'm not hugely experianced, however I wouldn't class any of my hives as weak colonies, there are plenty of bees there, they're just short on food. I'm putting fondant in for them and will keep putting it in all winter so hopefully the ladies won't starve.

Two of my hives are in the shade in the mornings, would it be better for the bees if I moved them? Given the location it's really a choice between shade up until about 10 - 11am or shade from about 5pm onwards. The beek I bought the hives from in the spring said it shouldn't make much differance but I'm wondering if perhaps the colder starts may have held them back a little in regards to foraging etc? I didn't extract anything from them this year, spent the year building them up from a very poor winter where most of the died off, hence the very cheap price for them.

Frith

 

[madasafish]

.

Two of my hives are in the shade in the mornings, would it be better for the bees if I moved them? Given the location it's really a choice between shade up until about 10 - 11am or shade from about 5pm onwards. The beek I bought the hives from in the spring said it shouldn't make much differance but I'm wondering if perhaps the colder starts may have held them back a little in regards to foraging etc? .

Frith

I don't have much experience but have two colonies which are also shaded in the mornings. One gets sun about 1 hour earlier than the other. Both appear to have bees foraging in the mornings at the same time... I concluded it made no noticeable difference..

Our local apiary has hives under trees with no sun before 10am in summer. Bees up and away before then...

 

[RoseCottage]

To Polyhive, Rab, and all other contributors...many thanks for the explanations about weak colonies and how to handle them,
Sam