What to do with old brood frames full of honey

[Jon.21]

Hi. At a new point in my bee keeping journey.

Now at the point 3 years into bee keeping where I am now rotating out the old frames. I have 10off 14x12 frames in the garage to dispose of but there is around 1kg to 1.5kg of honey I estimate on average per frame across all frames so at least 10kg of honey. These frames have all been in the brood box when treated with apivar so I can’t extract the honey.
I’ve a log burner and soup kettle which I use to render wax down so my thoughts were to cut the wax out (it’s wired foundation) and render down and use the frames as kindling but am not sure whether I can do this with all the honey in the frames as will end up with soup kettle full of honey mixed in with the water ?
I’m feeding the bees at the moment (7hives in the garden) so did think about bruising the cappings and putting a frame per hive above the crown board and let them take it down instead of feeding with sugar syrup but there is the risk of disease spreading.

Did a search and don’t seem to find answers are what people do with frames to dispose of with honey in so what are peoples thoughts ?
Jon

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

at the point 3 years into bee keeping where I am now rotating out the old frames.

why?

 

[pargyle]

Hi. At a new point in my bee keeping journey.

Now at the point 3 years into bee keeping where I am now rotating out the old frames. I have 10off 14x12 frames in the garage to dispose of but there is around 1kg to 1.5kg of honey I estimate on average per frame across all frames so at least 10kg of honey. These frames have all been in the brood box when treated with apivar so I can’t extract the honey.
I’ve a log burner and soup kettle which I use to render wax down so my thoughts were to cut the wax out (it’s wired foundation) and render down and use the frames as kindling but am not sure whether I can do this with all the honey in the frames as will end up with soup kettle full of honey mixed in with the water ?
I’m feeding the bees at the moment (7hives in the garden) so did think about bruising the cappings and putting a frame per hive above the crown board and let them take it down instead of feeding with sugar syrup but there is the risk of disease spreading.

Did a search and don’t seem to find answers are what people do with frames to dispose of with honey in so what are peoples thoughts ?
Jon

If there has been no disease in the colonies then you would be fairly safe giving the comb back to the bees to clean out. You could cut the honey filled comb out and put it in a rapid feeder with the cone removed - they will clean it out very quickly but - beware - as soon as they have taken down the honey they will start remodelling the comb left in the feeder ! They can be very creative ...

 

[pargyle]

why?

Because that's what the BBKA seem to recommend !!

Good job they don't look at my hives - I've just rotated out some brood frames that had 2015 written on them .. I think they had got to the stage where the even the bees didn't want to use them as they were at the outer edges of the hive and there was nothing in them ... the bees had cleaned and polished them but they were pretty near black.

The comb went on the bonfire but the frames are going to get boiled and re-used (the Yorkshireman in me ...)

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Because that's what the BBKA seem to recommend !!

a good enough reason not to do it then

 

[Jon.21]

why?

The general advice at my local club is to rotate out to mitigate against disease risk after a few years. To be honest it’s Pretty old dark comb (from the original hive I had) but the main reason is because they are national frames with drone brood on the bottom as used in 14x12 box and not in the best of shape as the comb is all over the place so am keen to get rid of them anyway.

 

[Sutty]

I recently extracted some super frames i suspect are nearly 30yrs old - I think i should dispose of them this year, the wood is very dark & seems brittle!

 

[ericbeaumont]

did think about bruising the cappings and putting a frame per hive above the crown board and let them take it down instead of feeding with sugar syrup but there is the risk of disease spreading

Better outcome, less expense, less labour. What is the disease history of this apiary?

 

[Jon.21]

Hi. Had no diseases this year so went for it. Put an empty 14x12 box on top of the crown board and put 5off national frames in it spaced a few inches apart and within 2 days they have almost taken it all down.

 

[Ely]

Because that's what the BBKA seem to recommend !!

Good job they don't look at my hives - I've just rotated out some brood frames that had 2015 written on them .. I think they had got to the stage where the even the bees didn't want to use them as they were at the outer edges of the hive and there was nothing in them ... the bees had cleaned and polished them but they were pretty near black.

The comb went on the bonfire but the frames are going to get boiled and re-used (the Yorkshireman in me ...)

Yes I've never understood the need to replace all brood comb every 3 years. If you know you haven't had any disease, why would it be necessary?

 

[ericbeaumont]

replace all brood comb every 3 years ... why would it be necessary?

Yes, of course queens lay in old comb, but the speed at which queens lay in new comb may convince you.

If you know you haven't had any disease

You don't know, but background virus and bacteria are present in all colonies and the trigger to multiplication is colony stress.

 

[plain_hunt]

why?

Not a very helpful reply at all

 

[drex]

Having spent a lifetime in medicine and know a bit about aseptic techniques, I find " sterilisation " techniques around beekeeping a laugh. For example, a shook swarm- lovely clean, scorched box, new frames, and then dump a load of dirty, disease carrying bees in.
I do not scorch my own hives. Why destroy any propolis the bees have coated it in.
I do replace frames if they are tatty or so dark I can barely see through them. Queens lay more readily in fresher comb.
But each to their own

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Not a very helpful reply at all

more helpful than yours.
I asked for more information and the rationale for replacement.
It's called making the beekeeper think - maybe you object to that?
Thinking I mean

 

[pargyle]

Steady folks .. you are playing in the beginners section here - you know the rules ...

 

[Amari]

Having spent a lifetime in medicine and know a bit about aseptic techniques, I find " sterilisation " techniques around beekeeping a laugh. For example, a shook swarm- lovely clean, scorched box, new frames, and then dump a load of dirty, disease carrying bees in.
I do not scorch my own hives. Why destroy any propolis the bees have coated it in.
I do replace frames if they are tatty or so dark I can barely see through them. Queens lay more readily in fresher comb.
But each to their own

- as a retired medic too. I sometimes read that after extracting honey the empty frames should be returned to the same box and the same hive so as to avoid cross infection. Contrary-wise, another time I read the recommendation to swap brood frame(s) from one hive to another eg test frame or to strengthen a weak colony. Moreover we know that worker bees and drones drift between hives.
I don't scorch my hives and do not rinse the hive tool between colonies. I've been fortunate re disease - no foul brood in 50+ years and CBPV twice - 2002 & 2022.

 

[drex]

I am happy to use apiary level hygiene. In an apiary I do not worry about which box goes where etc.

 

[Newbeeneil]

I agree, being able to change frames within an apiary for test frames and for adding stores to a weak colony is important. Moving between apiaries is not a good policy.

 

[ken in NH]

If there has been no disease in the colonies then you would be fairly safe giving the comb back to the bees to clean out. You could cut the honey filled comb out and put it in a rapid feeder with the cone removed - they will clean it out very quickly but - beware - as soon as they have taken down the honey they will start remodelling the comb left in the feeder ! They can be very creative ...

 

[ken in NH]

a good enough reason not to do it then

If there has been no disease in the colonies then you would be fairly safe giving the comb back to the bees to clean out. You could cut the honey filled comb out and put it in a rapid feeder with the cone removed - they will clean it out very quickly but - beware - as soon as they have taken down the honey they will start remodelling the comb left in the feeder ! They can be very creative ...

sorry! I wait till the bees tell me. and they will- by preferring other frames. a drawn frame is valuable- and you can use it for the honey supers. ( darker honey is still great). I have beautiful brood patterns on very old (10 to 15 years) frames.