What is the recommended space above a frame in a National hive - bottom bee space.

[RonM]

I have been looking at National Hive plans and diagrams with all the measurements, except one. Assuming bottom bee space, how much space to allow above a frame to the top edge of the box? I watched a video where someone mentioned 1/16", another said 1/8" and a diagram that showed it as 11/16" minus 7/16" (frame thickness) minus the height of the rail.
One reason I ask is that I have a 'seconds' National Brood Box that has 220mm sides instead of 226mm. This leads me on to my next question - Should I add a 6mm+ batten to the bottom or the top of the sides. If I leave it as it is then the frames will sit on the floor! Thanks.

Regards,
Ron.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Assuming bottom bee space, how much space to allow above a frame to the top edge of the box

The top of the top bars should sit flush with the leading edges of the top of the box, you just need a crownboard with a 6-8mm rim to keep it above the frames

 

[Boston Bees]

I have been looking at National Hive plans and diagrams with all the measurements, except one. Assuming bottom bee space, how much space to allow above a frame to the top edge of the box?

Zero, by definition

 

[enrico]

Flush unless you are using plastic spacers and then the spacers should be flush

 

[JimBee463]

I made a bottom bee space National brood box and the top of the frames sit flush with the top of the box.

 

[ics19]

Thorne instructions say the top of the runner should be 7/16" down from the top of the sides. With Thorne frames that gives about a good 1mm clearance on their frame top bars that are a bit less then 10mm. On boxes I've done which are more flush then gapped (!), then depending on the crown board or excluder type, the frames can stick when opening and lift up. Each to their own though

 

[enrico]

To be perfectly honest it is the space between the bottom of the frame and the top of the one underneath it that matters. As long as that is correct it doesn't really matter where they go in the boxes. Of course that gap must be right on the crown board and excluder too! The important thing is they must be the same throughout your apiary

 

[RonM]

Thanks everyone, I was becoming sidetracked on this! I have spent a couple of months dwelling on this and kept coming back to it. Should have asked the question on here way back then!
My other quandry is that now that a frame is in situ, the bottom of the frame almost touches my 'No Nonsense' underfloor entrance as the box sides are 220mm instead of standard 226mm(?). The metal cake straight edge is 3mm thick and sat on the bottom of the frame. Should I tack a 6-8 mm shim at the bottom or the top edge to raise the frame up. I am going to use it as an additional bait hive. Therefore I can make a roof to cover and protect a top shim and a home made crown board - as recommended by jenkinsbrynmair above, Thanks again.
Regards,
Ron.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Should I tack a 6-8 mm shim at the bottom or the top edge to raise the frame up

just tack a 10mm rim all the way around the floor itself and just rest the brood box on it.

 

[RonM]

just tack a 10mm rim all the way around the floor itself and just rest the brood box on it.

That sounds like a good 'No Nonsense' answer. If it rots - I can just replace it. I'll ask my neighbour to cut four pieces from the same pallet wood that I used for the UE. Thanks again for your advice.

Regards,
Ron.

 

[JamezF]

I've seen so many different claims of what "one beespace" actually is that I'm beginning to think that the odd millimetre here or there probably doesn't make much difference.

Or maybe it depends on how prolific your bees are.

James

 

[Erichalfbee]

I've seen so many different claims of what "one beespace" actually is that I'm beginning to think that the odd millimetre here or there probably doesn't make much difference.



James

http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/bsp.html