What is the difference?

[rdixon520]

What is the difference between a Deep National and a Dartington hive?

 

[oliver90owner]

Completely different hive concepts but using a common size of frame. 'Goggle' or look back at appropriate threads. Also you could try behaus or omlette, for the 'plastic cool box' version of the Dartington.


Edit - I see you already have a thread on the beehaus. There is your answer before you posted this one . A beehaus is a plastic Dartington, but not a particularly good copy/transfer to an alternative material. I have three and a beehaus. Beehaus was used for a short time,just once, and will be going and I don't really need the deep framed Dartington, so that will either go or be converted to extra deeps.

 

[rdixon520]

I understand that a Dartington is similar to a national regarding frames etc I just thought I may have been overlooking some other key aspects of the design. What are your reasons for wanting to get rid of the beehaus? What issues have you experienced with it?

 

[itma]

What is the difference between a Deep National and a Dartington hive?

The term "deep national" is frequently misused and misunderstood.




The standard national brood box is a "Deep National" - it takes DN frames.

However, there also exists an "Extra Deep" or "Jumbo" version of the national - which is most commonly known by its frame size - 14x12.

Mr Dartington's 22 (ish) frame hive design (and the Beehaus) uses 14x12 frames - Extra Deep, not DN deep, national frames.
With 22 (ish) frames in a long line, it is much longer than it is wide. You might mistake it for a chicken coop.

The National boxes (shallow, deep and extra deep) have a square 'footprint' and take 11 (OK 12 at a squeeze when it is new) hoffman frames.

The two things look entirely different. There are various other differences, but that is what would strike you on seeing the things.



I would strongly suggest that you get a hold of the splendid (and free) guide to the diversity of equipment available to beekeepers.
It may not be utterly comprehensive, but it sure answers questions like this! (Yes, in 2014 they are selling, and illustrating, a "Dartington".)
Its called Thorne's catalogue, and can be downloaded from their website if you don't want to register with them to be sent a printed version.
I think the pages explaining the frame types are particularly useful.

 

[alanf]

The term "deep national" is frequently misused and misunderstood...
I would strongly suggest that you get a hold of the splendid (and free) guide to the diversity of equipment available to beekeepers.

Indeed. The definitive guide to the National is the Ministry of Agriculture Advisory Leaflet 367 dated 1961. Scanned versions are available on various web sites, search is your friend.

Thorne's are the biggest UK supplier and have the shiniest and most comprehensive catalogue. Other suppliers are available, Maisemore, for instance don't make Dartington hives but also have an illustrated list of frame parts in their catalogue, plus other leaflets and diagrams. If you are assembling Nationals from flat, many find the Maisemore assembly sequence easier to follow.

 

[itma]

Indeed. The definitive guide to the National is the Ministry of Agriculture Advisory Leaflet 367 dated 1961. Scanned versions are available on various web sites, search is your friend.

Thorne's are the biggest UK supplier and have the shiniest and most comprehensive catalogue. Other suppliers are available, Maisemore, for instance don't make Dartington hives but also have an illustrated list of frame parts in their catalogue, plus other leaflets and diagrams. If you are assembling Nationals from flat, many find the Maisemore assembly sequence easier to follow.

Yes, as I said, Thorne's seem to have the most comprehensive catalogue, now including even the Dartington.
But there certainly are some things that they simply don't offer - full sized poly hives (to any design) for example.
And there are lots of other lovely catalogues available, including Maisemore's!
Not that its anything to do with either the OP or catalogues, but I am one of those who find Maisemore's wooden National assembly sequence easier to get right.
But for the answer to the OP's question, a look through the Thorne's 2014 catalogue would have provided the answer.

 

[MuswellMetro]

What is the difference between a Deep National and a Dartington hive?

Dartington use 22 of the 14x12 frames as previous posters say so a Dartington is twice the size of a 14x12 National ( or extra Deep) which uses 11 frames

Dartington are however designed for a different and novel approach to beekeepering swarm control, the hive is Top bee space not bottom bee space, it has two entrances ( one at either end) and can be divided into two hives by a division board for Artificial Swarm control

it also comes with half width supers not full supers, my Assocoation has tried them and a few memebers still use them

 

[Itchy]

Yes, as I said, Thorne's seem to have the most comprehensive catalogue, now including even the Dartington.
But there certainly are some things that they simply don't offer - full sized poly hives (to any design) for example.
And there are lots of other lovely catalogues available, including Maisemore's!
Not that its anything to do with either the OP or catalogues, but I am one of those who find Maisemore's wooden National assembly sequence easier to get right.
But for the answer to the OP's question, a look through the Thorne's 2014 catalogue would have provided the answer.

I cannot find their National hive assembly instructions

 

[Erichalfbee]

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