What is happening to our queens

[Boston Bees]

Yeah I'm happy to delude myself

That's the important thing. Me too.

At least I'm not pretending the bees I have that are descended from imports are native.

Absolutely. Only a fool would pretend that. I don't care what the ancestors of my bees are - they have all sorts of backgrounds I am sure, and are all sorts of colours - just that they show the ability to do well in the area I live in.

 

[Somerford]

I have to admit I sat through the UBKA zoom on Queens and why are they Failing by Mr Pettis, an eminent MD Professor of research and I looked at my notes after and thought much of what was being researched was irrelevant to us in the UK - we don’t fly queens / packages via cargo planes across country, and it also didn’t explain when exactly the ‘temperature’ affected sperm quality in queens - in the hive as a virgin with drones being chilled ? After mating ? In flight ? Once installed in their new home ?

I was annoyed he threw in ‘ pesticides...neonics affect queens’ like neonics are the sole chemical they come into contact with...??

how about all the varied legal (and not legal but still used) varroa treatments ? Glues and oils used to preserve hives, pesticides or herbicides in pollen ? Honestly the list is endless.

I was trying to work out his top three impacts a beekeeper can have on improving queen quality - I think in summary they would be to encourage and spot for supercedure, plentiful and good quality drones (define good quality), and poor health colonies = poor health queen

I’ve added some screen shots and also the credits at the end as they aren’t my slides. This will be available on YouTube at some point apparently

 

[Boston Bees]

encourage and spot for supercedure

Thanks for the summary. What does this bit mean in particular? Encourage supercedure I understand I guess - would "allow supercedure" be what he meant? - will hopefully discourage people from ripping down queen cells on sight - but "spot"?

 

[Nige.Coll]

That's the important thing. Me too.



Absolutely. Only a fool would pretend that. I don't care what the ancestors of my bees are - they have all sorts of backgrounds I am sure, and are all sorts of colours - just that they show the ability to do well in the area I live in.

Mine have to do well they pay my bills.
They seem to be doing that atm and not having any issues with surviving our winters.

 

[Boston Bees]

Mine have to do well they pay my bills.
They seem to be doing that atm and not having any issues with surviving our winters.

Again, that's the important thing isn't it. Good stuff.

 

[Nige.Coll]

Amitraz contaminated wax can reduce a queens egg laying by 10 eggs an hour.
pesticide contaminated wax causes many issues, smaller retinue, sperm viability and shorter lifespan.
Drone fertility is effected by a lot of things that can be introduced by the beekeeper or the environment.
Have a look on youtube at david r tarpy and juliana randel talks. Worth a watch. They have done a lot of research on drones and queens.

 

[elainemary]

I have to admit I sat through the UBKA zoom on Queens and why are they Failing by Mr Pettis, an eminent MD Professor of research and I looked at my notes after and thought much of what was being researched was irrelevant to us in the UK - we don’t fly queens / packages via cargo planes across country, and it also didn’t explain when exactly the ‘temperature’ affected sperm quality in queens - in the hive as a virgin with drones being chilled ? After mating ? In flight ? Once installed in their new home ?

I was annoyed he threw in ‘ pesticides...neonics affect queens’ like neonics are the sole chemical they come into contact with...??

how about all the varied legal (and not legal but still used) varroa treatments ? Glues and oils used to preserve hives, pesticides or herbicides in pollen ? Honestly the list is endless.

I was trying to work out his top three impacts a beekeeper can have on improving queen quality - I think in summary they would be to encourage and spot for supercedure, plentiful and good quality drones (define good quality), and poor health colonies = poor health queen

I’ve added some screen shots and also the credits at the end as they aren’t my slides. This will be available on YouTube at some point apparently

I agree I thought his talk was disappointing and very skewed to an American audience, I took little new insights from it.

Think you’re right re quality drones and supersedure but less sure about poor health colonies = poor queen.

David Tarpy gave a v good lecture on ‘is it the queen or is it something else’ (see FIBKA u tube) & challenges this thinking that all the ills of a colony is blamed on the queen.

He makes the point that it can be a result of a poor environment (too many colonies in the apiary or nearby), in a damp spot or frost pocket, badly ventilated equipment etc.. or it can be down to bad beekeeping (of course said with tongue in cheek)!

He did some work swopping queens from poorly performing colonies with good performing colonies and found the poor traits didn’t always transfer.

Just makes you think a bit more before squishing that queen...might be absolutely the right thing to do, but not in all cases

 

[Somerford]

I agree I thought his talk was disappointing and very skewed to an American audience, I took little new insights from it.

Think you’re right re quality drones and supercedure but less sure about poor health colonies = poor queen.

David Tarpy gave a v good lecture on ‘is it the queen or is it something else’ (see FIBKA u tube) & challenges this thinking that all the ills of a colony is blamed on the queen.

He makes the point that it can be a result of a poor environment (too many colonies in the apiary or nearby), in a damp spot or frost pocket, badly ventilated equipment etc.. or it can be down to bad beekeeping (of course said with tongue in cheek)!

He did some work swopping queens from poorly performing colonies with good performing colonies and found the poor traits didn’t always transfer.

Just makes you think a bit more before squishing that queen...might be absolutely the right thing to do, but not in all cases

Thanks I’ll look up his YouTube when I have a moment

 

[Swarm]

Got a bee breeder near me, him and his 8 colonies working on locally adapted bees.
He's been raving how much more productive his bees have been over the last 2-3 years, his queens improve every year.
Haven't told him his queens are mating with the Buckfast drones from the 40 colonies I have in that area.
He's happy.
Perk of being near my queen rearing apiary I guess.

How will others be forced into requeening every other season ?
Their queens mate better and easier due to more drones and 90% of them have buckfast derived bees anyway.
There is no one trying to breed locally adapted bees anywhere near me.
These little guys don't complain when I give them bees to replace their lost colonies or queens/bias when they have queenless colonies.

So which of these 'stories' are we expected to believe?
Hear these old chestnuts all the time

 

[Ian123]

So which of these 'stories' are we expected to believe?
Hear these old chestnuts all the time

I agree with Nige

 

[Apple]

I drone flood with Cornish Amm....... it is working.
Fortunately not too many beekeepers in this neck of the woods who either import so called Buckfasts or would pay astronomical amounts out for a queen.... balk at paying £80 for one of our best!!

 

[B+.]

I drone flood with Cornish Amm....... it is working.
Fortunately not too many beekeepers in this neck of the woods who either import so called Buckfasts or would pay astronomical amounts out for a queen.... balk at paying £80 for one of our best!!

You get £80 for an open mated queen? OMG. I must put my prices up!

 

[Nige.Coll]

So which of these 'stories' are we expected to believe?
Hear these old chestnuts all the time

Do you believe a guy with 8 colonies is a bee breeder ?
I thought he was the only one that deluded.
Maybe I should emphasize the sarcasm.

 

[Murox]

Most clubs and societies have at least one ~ Bob ~ the last one I knew was called Tristan.

 

[Antipodes]

Hive temperature can result in queens emerging with deformed wings.

First, brood raised at sub-optimal temperatures can result in deformations such as deformed wings, legs, and abdomen [17, 18]. Although eclosion rates are not different when brood are exposed to temperatures between 31–37°C, lengths of wings, proboscis, and tergum are significantly shorter and deformed bees appear at both ends of the extreme temperatures [6]. When pupae are exposed at 20°C for 96 h, eclosed Africanized honey bees (A. mellifera scutellata) show high percentages of split stings and deformed wings [19].

Are these deformities in queens not necessarily due to deformed wing virus, but simply deformed wings due to the temperature of the brood getting too low?

 

[Nige.Coll]

Are these deformities in queens not necessarily due to deformed wing virus, but simply deformed wings due to the temperature of the brood getting too low?

If you chill a queen cell at the time the wings are forming then you will end up with malformed wings.

 

[madasafish]

Well I am no expert but:

Trickling OA affects Queens. An accepted fact.
Bad weather affect mating. Fact
Pesticides affect Queens and the US uses lots of them. Fact.

I go no further.

My Q rearing - not breeding - is largely affected by weather. I don't use pesticides and we have no arable land in a 3 mile radius so little or no agricultural spraying - except cow dung.
I don't OA vape.

Last year two queens failed (c10%). As we had horrible weather in summer, I am not surprised. I am surprised that some were mated at all.

 

[Antipodes]

If you chill a queen cell at the time the wings are forming then you will end up with malformed wings.

Ok, thanks. That explains this I noticed today in this recently emerged queen then.

 

[cwinte]

I've got a few thoughts (not researched) on this topic. I'm a vet so have covered a little bit of genetics and reproduction including in production systems and a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. From this:

...

3. Sub-lethal effects. When it comes to pesticides and other chemicals (and to be honest, anything that affects wildlife in general), a lot of attention is given to lethal effects, where actions or agents directly kill. However, a much greater and less considered issue is sub-lethal effects where a small amount of the substance is present; not enough to kill the animal but sufficient to reduce their fertility, affect their development or impair their ability to feed (this also occurs with larger animals when predators are around), potentially inducing epigenetic changes. Could sub-lethal effects be responsible for reducing longevity/health of queens?

I may have a N c outbreak here at present, and probably over the last year in at least 1 hive. So I have been reading around, and not a lot to rely on! Nosema ceranae has been linked to queen health (Pathological effects of the microsporidium Nosema ceranae on honey bee queen physiology (Apis mellifera) - PubMed) and I have had several seasons of queen issues (masses of QC; queens superseded fast, Queens missing etc).
In my reading around I also came across mention of increased (100x greater) impacts of pesticides and environmental threats when N c is present. Sorry, can't find/recall the reference just now... Ahhhh, Nosema

Other scientific research has shown that an additionally worrying problem is the association of N. ceranae with other stresses (for example, diseases, pesticides, drought) in hives. Studies have consistently shown the honey bee is far more vulnerable to pesticides when it has ceranae. It has been demonstrated that it takes 100 times less pesticide to kill a bee with N. ceranae than a bee without the disease.
​

 

[tchu]

Thanks for reminding me. The drone cullers should be forced to run foundationless hives.

Beginner here, but could you please tell me why? I was told at the teaching apiary I go to that that’s what we should be doing to help keep the mite counts down, on top of the MAQS or any other treatment the teaching apiary elects each year when we are to take out supers off by October. Thanks in advance