what I saw in the hive today

[billycasper]

This is a new thread on the advice of a more experienced keeperwho read my comments on another thread.

I think i'd best start at the the beginning so that everyone understands the background.

I started with my first hive last summer with a nuc bought from a very reputable source. The hive progressed well through the summer and i was soon able to put a super on.
Towards the end of the summer i put on a second super which was developed and a small amount of capped honey.

As the time came to settle down for winter i did my final hive check and to cut a long story short i removed the top super (without stores but with comb) and replaced it with a contact feeder.

On doing my first full inspection today i found a very healthy number of bees out flying. Internally i found the following:

the super was 60% full of capped honey
In the brood box the queen was visible, there we a lot of bees bringing in orange pollen.
1 frame had a small amount of sealed brood as well a small amount of brood at various stages from egg onwards.
2 frames were clear of any brood, pollen or honey.
All other frames were filled with capped honey.
There are no drones or drone brood.
There are no queen cells.

Because of the high number of bees and amount of honey stores i put on another super (last years developed one). My worry was that the amount of honey in the brood box would limit the space for the queen to lay.

As a point of interest, the bees were a bit aggressive this morning, but in fairness i didn't smoke them.

As a novice i am comfortable with you using me as a bit of a case study as another experienced member implies that there is a lot to comment on and learn from my story.

 

[drstitson]

first question - did you leave a QE on between brood box and super over winter?

second question - how much syrup did you feed in the autumn?

third question - what anti-varroa measures/treatment have you used since you got the colony?

 

[Poly Hive]

What hive type please OP to give us a good start?

PH

 

[Suzi Q]

If the hive had a full super of stores going into winter would it have been unnecessary to feed with a contact feeder? And I will be interested to hear if the experienced forum members think 8 frames of capped stores in the brood box is too much at this time of year? But it all sounds Ok, queens laying

 

[Cazza]

If the hive had a full super of stores going into winter would it have been unnecessary to feed with a contact feeder?QUOTE]

Additional feed should have been unecessary IMHO. I still overwinter with no problems on single national bb. Haven't lost a colony for many a year and manage to have my selection ready for OSR in the spring.

Just having a little trouble getting my enlarged head through the door!

Cazza

 

[Finman]

full inspection today:

- the super was 60% full of capped honey.
- 1 frame had a small amount of sealed brood as well a small amount of brood at various stages from egg onwards.

- 2 frames were clear of any brood, pollen or honey.

- All other frames were filled with capped honey.

- i put on another super

(last years developed one). My worry was that the amount of honey in the brood box would limit the space for the queen to lay.

.

Vision is very clear:

- take off boath supers. The heat only escapes up to them.
- put the empty frames next to brood
.................................food -empty-empty-brood - food.

- You should somehow reduce the amount of food stores in the brood box and get empty frames instead.

If there is now another way, give a foundation after that when those 2 frames are filled with brood.

.

 

[Finman]

.
Alternative 2


You have only in one frame brood and practically the rest of hive is badly jammed with capped food.

You have an empty super and 60% filled super.

If I were you, I would take off that one brood frame. It includes mites.

Then I would put and excluder, a super over it and the queen to lay into the super. Bees move themselves to super to the queen.

Then I would put 4 half capped super frames into the box and the rest frames empty.
Empty empty - food, food - empty-emty, food food empty empty =10

If you see pollen in super frames, put them in the middle.

 

[oliver90owner]

Starting from the bottom and working upwards.

Because of the high number of bees

Do you think there are more than overwintered? Bees will be dying off at this point and your small amount of brood is inconsequential at this time. No more space will be needed yet.

amount of honey stores

You do not want sugar syrup masquerading in supers as honey. If this is the case it would be better to use these stores for brood expansion, or later in the season as winter stores.

My worry was that the amount of honey in the brood box would limit the space for the queen to lay.

See Finman's advice.

There are no drones or drone brood.
There are no queen cells.

That is entirely normal at this time of the year. I would be very worried for the colony if there were.

2 frames were clear of any brood, pollen or honey.

It would be extremely useful to know what size frames (ie type of hive) you have. One might be able to hazard a sensible guess on how long it might take for the queen to lay up these two frames.

replaced it with a contact feeder.

Did they actually use any? Seems, as Cazza says, a waste of effort as they were well stocked with stores.

the super was 60% full of capped honey

Did you leave a queen excluder on over winter? I am a little surprised that she is laying in the brood and not the super.

RAB

 

[billycasper]

Thanks for all your comments.

I did leave a QE on over winter.

I fed them because it was frightened of starving them over winter. My first year and i guess i was over-cautious to a point of detrimental.

If I was to play back what i think you are suggesting.

Removing a couple of the capped honey frames from the brood box and replacing them with empty frames will create brood space. Also remove the supers.
There will still be enough stores in the remaining brood frames for the colony.

My only question now is, will there be enough space if i remove the supers?

It's a national hive for those who asked.

 

[Cazza]

My only question now is, will there be enough space if i remove the supers?

It's a national hive for those who asked.

For the time being there should be plenty of room. It's very early in the year as yet and as you only have a little brood you are weeks away from an decent expansion in hive numbers.

Cazza

 

[Meg]

Yes, plenty of space in the brood box alone for the time being. As has been said, the overwintered bees will be dying off and your new brood area is still quite small. If you do have a couple of drawn brood frames to swap with some full of stores from the brood box then great. Otherwise I would swap one at a time for foundation and perhaps scrape the surface of one or two others to encourage the bees to use the stores and create space for the queen. (By the way - just thought - none of it is crystalised is it? If so, then better to remove those frames first and leave the easy to process stuff for the bees for the time being.)

Well done for getting them through their first winter! Don't worry about having extra stores - better that than the other way and you will learn as you go along to judge what feeding is needed i the future.

Meg

 

[oliver90owner]

You're lucky the cluster stayed in the brood and did not move to the super for stores during the winter period. You may have lost your queen, had they done so.

A full brood and a super is far more than they would normally consume in the winter period, and should suffice for the spring expansion in most instances (although you are a bit further north than me). This year I overwintered on only ten frames in several colonies and, as yet, they have not needed supplementing with fondant.

A couple empty frames for brood? She will not lay up all the cells, so about 6-7 thousand eggs at most, I would think. As her lay-rate will still be accelerating that may take less than ten days (possibly less than a week) should the weather continue to be very conducive, and the bees can forage pollen (or use stored) and can bring in water for brood development. In that time they will not clear away so much stores, but some will become available. Things can be seriously slowed if the bees are unable to fly, however, and we are not yet 'out of the woods' as far as wintry weather is concerned.

I am thinking there may be another silly March like last year (with swarming starting in early April) or, just as easily, a cold spell which may hamper any colonies which get ahead of the 'normal' average season. If the latter, those 'forward' colonies will need extra water and possibly extra protein, if the weather turns really nasty, even for just a few days, dependent on how much open brood is being serviced, or they may go backwards quite sharply.

So no forecast from me; I will deal appropriately with my colonies whatever Mother Nature throws at them.

I think you really need a local beek to be able to discuss the development, over the next month. 'There is many a slip twixt cup and lip' is the old saying and although it would appear your bees are fine at present, things can change very quickly during this important period of expansion.

RAB

 

[beebreeder]

I have never used brood and a half, dont want supers smelling of thymol and then being filled with unusable honey, March is usually the month when colonies starve so having plenty of stores is not a problem, as the brood nest expands they will eat a lot of the stores as there is pollen out there but little nectar.

 

[Finman]

March is usually the month when colonies starve so having plenty of stores is not a problem, as the brood nest expands they will eat a lot of the stores as there is pollen out there but little nectar.

Yes but in this case there are not much brood and bees have zero space to rear brood. They will not eate store. They are just blocked.

 

[Finman]

.
After sleeping the night I got a 3# plan.

I looked London Forecast. There will not be over 10C temps during a week.
That means that working with that brood frame propably causes a chalk brood. So it is better to forget those brood in the plan.

Take 2 super boxes off.

- Look if you find pollen in combs.

- Take the best 3-4 pollen combs and then rest of combs empty.

- Take that brood frame off, put the excluder and queen onto emptycomb box. Then shake bees on from brood frame. Let the birds eate brood from comb.

- When the bees have filled the brood box with brood (it may takes couple of weeks) then arrange your old brood box.

- Now you have there 3 empty comb frames and food frames. Then add there 2 foundations and take an excluder off. Follow situations and give more foundations.

It takes perhaps 1,5 months and you have a hive which has 1,5 boxes brood and the rest food. Perhaps rape starts blooming and the hive expands stronly. Then give a box of foundations.


You have those food frames but never mind, if you hive is in good condition. You may use the food frames late or save them to next winter, but dont brake the combs.

 

[oliver90owner]

Finman has the right ideas. The biggest failing is to rely on the London forecast!

 

[Finman]

The biggest failing is to rely on the London forecast!

It is the best I got.
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/uk/uk_forecast_warnings.html

 

[drstitson]

Thought provoking suggestions as always finman.

according to foreca.com it may well be possible to do a quick rearrangement when the sun is out on saturday afternoon. everything done as quick as possible, maybe with cover cloths.

good idea about the varroa control by discarding the sole brood frame. would you suggest OA trickle once broodless?

 

[Spadaman]

RAB said " "There are no drones or drone brood.".

That is entirely normal at this time of the year. I would be very worried for the colony if there were. "

Why ???

My bees seem to have survived over winter and lots about flying in this warm weather. However...
Two weeks ago I saw a dead drone on the landing board of one of my hives. Possibly one left over from last year but quite unusual I would have thought. Could mean that the queen was laying in 3rd week of Jan. It was quite warm down here in Dorset. Should I be worried?

 

[Finman]

Never mind drones if queen lays normal workers.