What did you do in the Apiary today?

[user 20297]

I’ve been putting foundation in frames for two supers to put them on tomorrow. Horrible, horrible job. Can anyone give me any clues as to how to nail the damn bar thing through the loops in the wire in without hammering my fingers, going through the top bar, bending the nail, throwing the f****r out of the door and generally losing the plot and swearing or possibly all of the above? I have tried clamps and grips and some work sometimes but nothing seems to be a foolproof way of getting the bloody things in without making a right mess.

Start three nails/pins at a slight angle through the wide edge of the strip roughly aligned with the loops.
I assume that you've already bent those at 90 degrees?
Place the frame, upside down, with the top bar flat on a hard surface and put the fillet strip,wide side against the bottom of the top bar, with the pins angled towards you to make them easier to hammer.
Whilst applying some force to push the fillet against the foundation, partially tap in a nail with a pin hammer.....a very small headed hammer. Knock in all the nails and if necessary, leave long ones slightly proud.....not fully knocked in.
Don't use the tiny, silver pins....the thin, black gimp pins are better.
This is probably far from the "official" way, but works well for me.

 

[sarahcorlett2566]

Start three nails/pins at a slight angle through the wide edge of the strip roughly aligned with the loops.
I assume that you've already bent those at 90 degrees?
Place the frame, upside down, with the top bar flat on a hard surface and put the fillet strip,wide side against the bottom of the top bar, with the pins angled towards you to make them easier to hammer.
Whilst applying some force to push the fillet against the foundation, partially tap in a nail with a pin hammer.....a very small headed hammer. Knock in all the nails and if necessary, leave long ones slightly proud.....not fully knocked in.
Don't use the tiny, silver pins....the thin, black gimp pins are better.
This is probably far from the "official" way, but works well for me.

Thanks. I do all that (and use the black pins) except start with the nails partly hammered in. It’s the rest that I find difficulty with: I know that’s what I am supposed to be doing but I haven’t got enough hands to hold the bar in and down whilst holding the tiny nail at an angle and hammering the damn thing at an angle into the correct position. I’ve done 22 brood frames and 20 supers so I can do it but not well and not easily.

 

[sarahcorlett2566]

I've found that it helps if I use a rampin to locate the pin in position before tapping home with a small hammer.

Are you trying to hammer the pins for the bar from the top down into the top bar or at 90 degrees to it?

From the underside of the bar thing into the underside of the top bar (when the frame is the right way around) at an angle like the Thornes video. I think going in horizontally may be the way forward.

 

[sarahcorlett2566]

You don’t need to get the nail through the loop for a start and nail it horizontally into the top bar not vertically

Thank you. I think that may be the way forward. Who is Murray? I’d like to be able to do it myself though and I think JamezF is right - I need more hammer skill, or a nail gun!

 

[user 20297]

Thanks. I do all that (and use the black pins) except start with the nails partly hammered in. It’s the rest that I find difficulty with: I know that’s what I am supposed to be doing but I haven’t got enough hands to hold the bar in and down whilst holding the tiny nail at an angle and hammering the damn thing at an angle into the correct position. I’ve done 22 brood frames and 20 supers so I can do it but not well and not easily.

I can see what you mean. I've had a life of manual work and DIY so have fairly strong hands and dexterity. But it is a bit of a strain doing "simple" things like that nowadays.

As long as you can get the foundation gripped a little, the bees soon lock it in place.

I did once consider using a "safe" glue or molten wax to secure it without the bar.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I’ve been putting foundation in frames for two supers to put them on tomorrow. Horrible, horrible job. Can anyone give me any clues as to how to nail the damn bar thing through the loops in the wire in without hammering my fingers, going through the top bar, bending the nail, throwing the f****r out of the door and generally losing the plot and swearing or possibly all of the above? I have tried clamps and grips and some work sometimes but nothing seems to be a foolproof way of getting the bloody things in without making a right mess.

Lay the frame flat on the bench with the top bar towards you then just nail down through the wedge,foundation then the side of the top bar, you can also angle the pin slightly towards you as well

 

[Newbeeneil]

Thanks. I do all that (and use the black pins) except start with the nails partly hammered in. It’s the rest that I find difficulty with: I know that’s what I am supposed to be doing but I haven’t got enough hands to hold the bar in and down whilst holding the tiny nail at an angle and hammering the damn thing at an angle into the correct position. I’ve done 22 brood frames and 20 supers so I can do it but not well and not easily

View attachment trim.c69fed26-3a15-4ba5-8ab5-75b6e7240e8d.mov
Hopefully the video has attached and shows how easy it is with a Nail gun

 

[ericbeaumont]

View attachment 35739

No picture, Neil!

 

[Newbeeneil]

No picture, Neil!

Drat! I’m crap at attaching videos!! Anybody got any tips?

 

[Galaxy55]

I can see the video Neil

 

[ericbeaumont]

nail the damn bar thing through the loops in the wire in without hammering my fingers, going through the top bar

Going through the top bar tells me that you're nailing in the wrong direction.
Photo below shows incorrect gimp on the left. Note that the correct gimp on the right leans slightly away from you to ensure it stays within top bar wood.



You're right to tap the gimp into position on the closing bar first; having done that, clamp the closing bar with finger and thumb tight against the top bar and tap the gimp home.

I avoid pinning through the 3 wire vees; in a year or two if you wish to re-use frames, or even just chop out old comb, the pinned vees will make the job an infuriation and drive you even more insane than this job of construction. Pin the gimps to one side and the wires and comb will chop out easily.

You say you use black pins: make sure to use Challenge 20 x 1mm pins; others are too long, too thick or rubbish. As James pointed out, a light hammer (4oz pein) is the one for the job.

 

[ericbeaumont]

Who is Murray?

Murray McGregor of Denrosa Apairies runs about 5,000 colonies and supplies queens, bees and now frames. If you want the latter, be aware that small numbers won't make it cost effective, so team up and buy 1000. Murray is on Twitter and worth following for practical insight.

 

[Simon Mills]

Yes but if you nail vertically it's far easier to remove the strip of wood when replacing the old comb

Don't knock the nail fully home, leave it slightly proud so pincers can be used to pull the nails when required.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Thank you. I think that may be the way forward. Who is Murray? I’d like to be able to do it myself though and I think JamezF is right - I need more hammer skill, or a nail gun!

Into The lions den on here. Bee farmer in Scotland .frames already available wholesale but in smaller quantities hopefully through an existing outfit shortly.....
Wax smaller than the usual size "melted" onto a wired frame (rather than the wax being wired) frames have no grooves and a solid bottom bar,

 

[JamezF]

I was aware the foundation wasn't attached to the sides or bottom of the frame. Didn't realise it wasn't attached at the top either. I do like the idea of ungrooved sidebars and single piece bottom bars though.

James

 

[ericbeaumont]

Don't knock the nail fully home, leave it slightly proud so pincers can be used to pull the nails when required.

Seems a good idea, but in practice you will regret anything sitting proud of the frame, for when the hive tool catches it when removing burr comb everything will jolt, and bees and you will curse.

For the same reason, frame parts must be fitted together flush, and make sure to fold over the lower two foundation vee wires before fitting the sheet to the frame. Do not let them protrude from the bottom bars!

 

[sarahcorlett2566]

View attachment 35739

Into The lions den on here. Bee farmer in Scotland .frames already available wholesale but in smaller quantities hopefully through an existing outfit shortly.....
Wax smaller than the usual size "melted" onto a wired frame (rather than the wax being wired) frames have no grooves and a solid bottom bar,
View attachment 35745

Interesting! Thank you.
Hopefully the video has attached and shows how easy it is with a Nail gun

 

[sarahcorlett2566]

Interesting!

 

[sarahcorlett2566]

Murray McGregor of Denrosa Apairies runs about 5,000 colonies and supplies queens, bees and now frames. If you want the latter, be aware that small numbers won't make it cost effective, so team up and buy 1000. Murray is on Twitter and worth following for practical insight.

Thank you!

 

[Erichalfbee]

The bees

I was aware the foundation wasn't attached to the sides or bottom of the frame. Didn't realise it wasn't attached at the top either. I do like the idea of ungrooved sidebars and single piece bottom bars though.

James

quickly glue it in place