What did you do in the Apiary today?

[pargyle]

Hopefully you'll learn and it will be your last.
Apart from trying to save a colony with EFB there is no possible reason or justification in conducting a shook swarm - whoever told you there is should be ashamed of themselves

I've never done one (never needed to) but there is one member of our association who seems to do it every spring - I asked him why and the reply was 'that was what he was taught to do' ...

And that's how it goes on ....

 

[Curly green finger's]

I've never done one (never needed to) but there is one member of our association who seems to do it every spring - I asked him why and the reply was 'that was what he was taught to do' ...



And that's how it goes on ....

Just imagine shook swarming a whole apairy I was reading about this in the bbka mag some time ago.

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[pargyle]

Just imagine shook swarming a whole apairy I was reading about this in the bbka mag some time ago.

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Totally bonkers but I know it happens ...as JBM says - only reason should be EFB. Old frames can be worked out by just gradually moving them out of the brood area to the extremities of the hive. Personnally - I think that there is too much worry about old wax in old frames ... I've got brood frames still in use that I had when I started beekeeping - if they are not diseased or have been attacked by wax moth they are usable. Valuable resource drawn brood frames - why would you want to change them excessively ? I give new frames to thr brood area as queen seem to prefer fresh comb but .. if there is no fresh comb they will use what's there.

 

[E&MBees]

Well done.....good outcome
E

Thank you Enrico.

It’s good to know that I’ve got it right.
Emily

 

[ericbeaumont]

Checked in on a shook swarm colony, completed last week and was a bit worried as was my first time and I found it all a bit too intrusive... However they have gone off with a boom, 1 week on and they have built comb like a swarm. Really pleased

oGri, I'm also interested to hear your reasons for the shook swarm; like many of us, I've done them in the past with similar spectacular results. I used it either as a rapid method to get rid of varroa or when drastic measures were warranted: I recall a couple of colonies given to me (wife divorcing departed husband beekeeper) that were on dreadful old comb.

Not taken the shook swarm tool from the box for some years, but if it's used at the right time - bit like a surfer waiting for a wave - the results can be very effective.

 

[chipper]

Shook swarming if timed well can be a great way of getting the disease levels down in a hive...also getting rid of a great percentage of the Varroa mites...
IF I had only a few hives I would do it annually....
Any loss is soon made up and swarming is suppressed....

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Just imagine shook swarming a whole apairy

,
Indeed - just imagine.....
What these shook swarm obsessed morons don't tell you is conducting a shook swarm leaves you with a totally disoriented colony
Bees looking for a new home, begging to be allowed into any hive they encounter, nurse bees are always welcome in another colony,they are seen as a handy asset - and how is foulbrood easily spread? on the mandibles of nurse bees that tend infected brood.
These idiots will tell you how a shook swarm galvanises the colony - well, yes, in a way it does, in fact it has no choice, some fool has just shook them out of their home and they are left with an empty box - the bees knacker themselves frantically drawing comb and rebuilding the nest so that they can get the queen laying again - a queen that then is at risk of burning out, going into overdrive laying to replace all that lost brood.
But these fools won't take telling - it is a mantra that has been blindly repeated and passed on from generation to generation of beekeepers. as Tanzania senior beekeeping Officer Dr Francis G Smith said in his Book 'Beekeeping in the tropics' in 1959 - the biggest obstacle to successful beekeeping in the UK has been the BBKA and its acolytes

 

[Ian123]

Shook swarming if timed well can be a great way of getting the disease levels down in a hive...also getting rid of a great percentage of the Varroa mites...
IF I had only a few hives I would do it annually....
Any loss is soon made up and swarming is suppressed....

Sorry that’s carp there is nothing a shook swarm achieves in general beekeeping that can’t be done with normal management. It’s a completely pointless process that only reduces swarming because you are reducing the number of bees. They look great with a new drawn box but the go into standstill mode as the older bees die off.

 

[Curly green finger's]

What other options are there for foulbrood other than a shook swarm.
If a shook swarm is the very last option?? as others have said it does also help with varroa.


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[oGri]

oGri, I'm also interested to hear your reasons for the shook swarm; like many of us, I've done them in the past with similar spectacular results. I used it either as a rapid method to get rid of varroa or when drastic measures were warranted: I recall a couple of colonies given to me (wife divorcing departed husband beekeeper) that were on dreadful old comb.

Not taken the shook swarm tool from the box for some years, but if it's used at the right time - bit like a surfer waiting for a wave - the results can be very effective.

A mouse had entered this hive via a damaged floor and the BB was riddled with holes and bare wires.
Bees has started repairs but of course all going the wrong way, this was (I felt) the lesser of all evils, had I left it, this entire BB would have become unusable and uninspectable.
I’m sure some others would have done differently, however I am very happy with the outcome.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

What other options are there for foulbrood other than a shook swarm.

In this country?
Oxytetracycline (antibiotics) is no longer allowed apart from certain extenuating circumstances
petrol

If a shook swarm is the very last option?? as others have said it does also help with varroa.

As does amputating one's foot to cure ingrowing toenails

 

[Curly green finger's]

That's what I was thinking.. Petrol.
Why is there no use of antibiotics for foulbrood.
As a farmer I'm able to use antibiotics for my sheep and cattle.. All of our cross breeds go into the food chain.
I would much prefer to use antibiotics than a shook swarm or petrol a bit of a no brainer really??

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[Ian123]

What other options are there for foulbrood other than a shook swarm.
If a shook swarm is the very last option?? as others have said it does also help with varroa.


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AFB is colony destruction so no shook swarm, EFB can be treated under guidance or shook swarm with the inspector, that however is not general beekeeping as to helping with varroa if you are up on your treatments or a simple winter oxalic then a shook swarm is pointless. As to the other post about grotty frames simply stick a new box on top or pull all but those containing brood. As soon as the queen moves up slide an excluder between the old box and the new job done! Pls anyone tell me what a shook swarm does that can not be achieved in a more sensible way.

 

[Ian123]

That's what I was thinking.. Petrol.
Why is there no use of antibiotics for foulbrood.
As a farmer I'm able to use antibiotics for my sheep and cattle.. All of our cross breeds go into the food chain.
I would much prefer to use antibiotics than a shook swarm or petrol a bit of a no brainer really??

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You’ve only got to look at the states to see why antibiotics are not a good idea in terms of beekeeping many treat but there is still a background of AFB. EFB is generally considered a lesser problem. To prove a point in this country we are lucky to have very minor cases in all but a few areas. So would suggest we are not far off the mark.

 

[Ian123]

Mark to use your cattle analogy would you go to your herd and destroy half to prevent disease that they don’t have or those that with normal management practices you can prevent. Ian

 

[ericbeaumont]

A mouse had entered this hive via a damaged floor and the BB was riddled with holes and bare wires. Bees has started repairs but of course all going the wrong way

stick a new box on top. As soon as the queen moves up slide an excluder between the old box and the new

Ian's method would have achieved the same end without the disruption of a shook swarm, but as experience is best gained directly, perhaps everyone should do a shook swarm at least once...

 

[pargyle]

Ian's method would have achieved the same end without the disruption of a shook swarm, but as experience is best gained directly, perhaps everyone should do a shook swarm at least once...

When I was a kid my Dad said .. "If you climb trees you will fall out and hurt yourself" .. I climbed trees and eventually fell out and broke my arm ..

Sometimes it's better to listen to those who have experience and give sound advice than to try and re-invent the wheel or prove them wrong.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

perhaps everyone should do a shook swarm at least once...

Just so that they can see for themselves what a ridiculous and downright stupid manipulation it is?

 

[beeno]

Thank you Enrico.

It’s good to know that I’ve got it right.
Emily

Hope you have enough bees in the nuc to keep QC warm. I tend to move QC on day 14 when they are more mature.

 

[beeno]

What other options are there for foulbrood other than a shook swarm.
If a shook swarm is the very last option?? as others have said it does also help with varroa.


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The foulbroods are notifiable diseases. AFB colony mandatory destroyed in the UK. EFB may be treated with oxytetracycline at the bee inspectors discretion, but they prefer shook swarm, as the antibiotics suppresses the symptoms, but the EFB often comes back. However, this may be due to ineffective barrier management by the beek. Commercial beeks apparently prefer to have heavily infected EFB colonies destroyed rather than risking further spread of the disease. Sorry if I have gone over old ground.