What did you do in the Apiary today?

[curry756]

How does insulation reduce ventilation?

If you have a solid coverboard and OMF, the bees can manage their own ventilation by fanning through the floor and entrance;
Insulation not only reduces losses and fluctuations of heat, but it also helps to increase humidity while reducing condensation on the inside of the hive, both of which are beneficial increments when compared to the old setup.

Bees are quite adept at managing ventilation in a confined chamber. Swarm scouts show a preference for new hive locations with a single entrance no bigger than 3 inches, they don't like locations that have a constant natural air flow.

If you cover up a hole then stuff cant get through - simple really when you apply some simple physics and some some common sense

Please can you point me to your source of information as to what scout bees prefer and what how bees can manage air flow - I would like to read that.

also - by your same logic - Bees are quite adept at managing temperature in a confined chamber. But I have no proof to back that up.

 

[itma]

... The beecraft mag said to add an empty super before winter and you (and others will too) contradicting that. Again, I am trusting the magazine that is endorsed by the BBKA. ...

1/ Beecraft is not "endorsed by the BBKA". It has no connection nowadays with the BBKA.

2/ Articles in Beecraft and the BBKA News are not offered as peer-reviewed "best practice".
The editorial policy is to not even print a 'health warning' on particularly 'way out' opinions.
Articles are simply contributors' opinions - just like posts on here. They are not 'endorsed' by anyone.


Putting a large amount of empty space above the bees as winter preparation is almost as daft as the 50-year-old idea of raising the coverboard on matchsticks for winter.
Unfortunately, in beekeeping there is a tendency to mistake age for wisdom, and mere 'experience' for the much more useful ability to learn from experience.
Pick your guru carefully!


My 'lightbulb moment' regarding insulation was when an NDB mentioned that he put on insulation before Apiguard treatment, to help ensure enough warmth for the treatment to be effective.
I asked myself, when is insulation UNhelpful? And since then, I've been buying polyhives ...

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

If you cover up a hole then stuff cant get through .

Well done! therefore bees can't get through to chew your insulation and you don't have a roaring airway through your hive

Please can you point me to your source of information as to what scout bees prefer

Tom Seeley - Honeybee democracy - years of research to discover what accommodation bees prefer

 

[wessexmario]

Tom Seeley - Honeybee Democracy - years of research to discover what accommodation bees prefer

that's the one.
If you don't have the book, there are also a number of youtube videos with the same title by Tom Seeley where he explains a lot of what's in the book.

 

[midnight sun]

I read the BBKA mag. and such, (plus the usual books),but, no offence to them, I tend to learn my beekeeping from this forum. Experienced beeks and open to new ideas. (mostly).

 

[BeeJayBee]

Some information has made me think a bit more and I will be putting on the insulating back on all the hives tomorrow

That's good. If they could, I'm sure they'd thank you.

As mentioned above: most people keep insulation all year as it helps to keep the bees cool in summer? Never thought of it that way. I may have to re-think. Who else does this?

I use poly hives with either an acrylic crown board or a thick sheet of polythene below a slab of either high density polystyrene or kingspan protected by a metal roof. The insulation stays all year.

Open mesh floor and a shallow entrance (I think about 1cm) that I reduce to about 3" (7-8cm) width.

Bees are quite adept at managing ventilation in a confined chamber.

True.

Some people forget that bees have been around for millions of years. Our native bees evolved to live in hollow trees or largish gaps between rocks. They know how to control their environment.

It's beekeepers - well, some beekeepers - who think bees don't mind too much if they're put in a thin-walled box, with a massive entrance, a large gap in the roof, and no insulation.

 

[pargyle]

If you cover up a hole then stuff cant get through - simple really when you apply some simple physics and some some common sense

Please can you point me to your source of information as to what scout bees prefer and what how bees can manage air flow - I would like to read that.

also - by your same logic - Bees are quite adept at managing temperature in a confined chamber. But I have no proof to back that up.

I actually go further than most on here ..my clear 6mm polycarbonate crownboards are actually sealed to the top of the hive over winter (I use aluminium tape to do this) and there's at least 50mm Kingspan on top .. more in my polyhives. So there is no upward airflow in the hive whatsoever - and before you ask - No, I don't get any condensation problems.

My seminal moment was an old book (1973) by a real thinking beekeeper - Bill Bielby .. who said in his book 'Home Honey Production' two things .. Page 44... You can NEVER have enough insulation and The best way to overwinter bees is to give them a hive that is as draught free as possible. To me it was a no brainer - Bill in his day was a great thinker and was considered an expert on insulation and condensation in hives ....

Beekeepers have known about insulation for years ... Even Abbe Warre had a box of insulation on the top of his hive .. it was only Wedmore in his 1947 book 'The Ventilation of bee hives' that started the move towards through flow ventilation. His ideas were based on flawed research and have been discredited time and again ... yet STILL there are influential beekeepers who continue to propagate the ideas that bees are best in cold but dry ventilated hives ...

Indeed - I came across this article only last month ...

http://www.cdbka.org.uk/index.php/bee-keeping/members-gen-info/78-ventilating-a-hive-and-why

The message is very slow to get through ?

 

[pargyle]

Thick layer of ice on my car tonight when I left work at midnight - temperature was -1 degree C and with clear skies could fall further. If you think Spring has sprung then think again - this is the Costa del Fareham and we had hailstones the size of peas this afternoon ! I'm glad mine are still snuggled down under their duvet ...

 

[busybee53]

Thick layer of ice on my car tonight when I left work at midnight - temperature was -1 degree C and with clear skies could fall further. If you think Spring has sprung then think again - this is the Costa del Fareham and we had hailstones the size of peas this afternoon ! I'm glad mine are still snuggled down under their duvet ...

Yes but do you leave insulation all year? It seems some do.

Do forum members think insulation can help to keep the hive cooler inside if the hot sun is beating down on a metal roof? (Hot sun ... I wish).

 

[pargyle]

Yes but do you leave insulation all year? It seems some do.

Do forum members think insulation can help to keep the hive cooler inside if the hot sun is beating down on a metal roof? (Hot sun ... I wish).

Yes, I leave insulation on all year above the crown board and my long hive is a triple wall construction with a layer of polystyrene between the outer and inner layers of timber. The Apex roof also has a layer of insulation between the outer skin of 15mm timber and an inner layer of plywood, the outer covering is roofing felt not metal so there's less heat retention in the summer.

Is this insulation over the top ? Probably ? But .. this hive houses the best colony I have, they have had very low levels of varroa for the last three years and have survived without any brood disease or any evidence of other diseases - despite no treatment of any sort. Coincidence ? .. Well, perhaps it is and the disaster is just around the corner waiting to happen - Finman's prediction of they'll be dead within a year has long since passed and gone .. but I wait and hope against such an event.

Like I said, insulation is a no-brainer - I can't prove scientifically that it helps my bees but the circumstantial evidence is that it is one thing that appears to work on a whole lot of levels and it costs so little. I'm not too heavily bothered about the science of it .. there are others on here much better qualified to look after that ... I just work on the basis that 'If it works - keep doing it !'.

 

[bontbee]

shook out a colony (on Sunday) that had contained a DLQ...sad sigh...but the adjacent colony will have a boost.

I wonder if they will throw out the worker-sized drones? Any offers?

 

[madasafish]

not really as it reduces ventilation - which does not help other problems like chalk brood.

So its not as simple as you say.

Also, mine eat the polystyrene and make holes in it where the crownboard holes are, so I take the fact that they dont like it there during spring/summer etc.

Bees nibble away at low density polystyrene. Period.


It IS simple.. And if you want to know why, think of the rubbish example linked to of a car in hot sunlight with closed windows. Any car has : lots of windows, :and a thin steel roof with no insulation . Of course it will get hot in the summer sun: and as anyone who has slept in a car will tell you, it gets VERY cold in winter nights.



As I said, I leave insulation on all year.. It's glued onto the hive walls ...

 

[madasafish]

Replaced the nylon ropes that keep two of my hinged TBH roofs from overbalancing when open. This involved drilling wider holes in the hives. Bees ignored me... ..

Fortunately neither was my "naughty" hive.. they would have come out to investigate....

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Yes but do you leave insulation all year? It seems some do.

Do forum members think insulation can help to keep the hive cooler inside if the hot sun is beating down on a metal roof? (Hot sun ... I wish).

Yes, have a slab of 40 or 50mm kingspan permanently fixed inside all my roofs - no battens in roofs and no silly vents and before anyone asks......................no mould!

 

[Margaret Elisabeth]

Nothing! Bees have retreated indoors again. Wind is from North at the mo. chilly.
Thinking of changing my home-made 4 inch deep quilts for kingspan in the autumn. I found mould when I put oxalic on earlier in the year.

 

[wessexmario]

Visited the hives early this morning before breakfast with a big arm-full of various sized blocks of wood and a car jack.
No suit or smoker, as I put the entrance blocks in for the duration of the operation.

Now the supporting frame and both hives on it are perfectly level.

Over the winter the building blocks that the frame is sat on had sunk into the ground a little, making both hives tilt to one side.
There was the risk of the hive boxes twisting out of true with the frame sagging on one side, which could only get worse when the supers get heavy.
Having it nice and level should also help the girls draw out parallel comb as later in the year I intend to put some frames in with foundation starter strips for comb honey.

 

[Bosleeu]

https://vimeo.com/123392973

It's just after nine and 11 degrees - this colony is always out and about before the others.

Know you shouldn't wish your life away but I sure am looking forward to real Spring arriving.

Can anybody tell me if Laurel trees yield a lot of nectar? There are loads around the lakes near home, and all are full of flowers about to open.

 

[curry756]

Thanks for the advice all

1) Supers off
2) Insulation back in
3) Tom Seeley - Honeybee democracy - added to reading list
4) Neopol added to ALL hives
5) Left empty supers on as ekes to house neopol - this is staying for now. I will look into it more for next year
6) Here is a pic from Wednesday

 

[Amari]

1/ Beecraft is not "endorsed by the BBKA". It has no connection nowadays with the BBKA.

2/ Articles in Beecraft and the BBKA News are not offered as peer-reviewed "best practice".
The editorial policy is to not even print a 'health warning' on particularly 'way out' opinions.
Articles are simply contributors' opinions - just like posts on here. They are not 'endorsed' by anyone.


Not true surely? March 'Beecraft', title page (p3):
Beecraft
The Official Journal of the British Beekeepers' Association

 

[Tremyfro]

Checked my varroa boards....Hive 1 had about 15 varroa on it.
Hive2 and 3 had nothing...other than a little pale wax dust.
I applied some of Mr HM Thymol recipe for varroa. The ladies scuttled out of the way...giving the pads a wide birth. Hope it works. How long do I wait before the major amount of varroa drop?