What did you do in the Apiary today?

[elainemary]

That’s quite a drop.
What was the drop like on Formic Pro?
You need an InstantVap fir

Beesource members are using a treatment window of 14 days not 7
The Americans have been using it for some years.

However the pads were completely dried up after 7 days and no scent at all. I put them on a non tested colony that I knew had a few mites to see if they’d drop more and after 7 days no drop. Put Apistan onto this colony and drops straight away. The Formic pro only lasts 7 days max.

Formic Pro is different to Maqs. The outer wrap has changed so much gentler release for the Uk market with smaller hives. Has that ‘formulation’ with the slower release paper available in the USA for years? It’s still formic pro but it is a different mechanism of release to the old original Maqs.

My theory is it dries up too quickly in large colonies and doesn’t penetrate the brood cappings.

How many people actually monitor drops before, during and after treatment? Not many I guess will have spotted this. They then might lose a colony over winter and put it down to bad luck.

Has the new Formic Pro been trialled by the manufacturer in large as well as ‘standard’ sized colonies? No way would this number of phoretic mites (Apistan only works phonetically as you know) have dropped just 2 weeks after using Formic pro in a nectar flow when the chance of robbing is surely low?

What do you think?

 

[Erichalfbee]

If the pads had dried up after seven days then maybe the answer is to add another two for another week
Or get an InstantVap

 

[enrico]

If the pads had dried up after seven days then maybe the answer is to add another two for another week
Or get an InstantVap

Just bought an instant vap. ( used this year's honey sales as damned expensive) Nice piece of kit, asked twice for him to send me the instructions though as I only had half of them in the box, luckily the u tube videos explain it all nicely as still no instructions.

 

[Moobee]

Replenished all the wasp and hornet traps in the out apiaries. Luckily not too many wasps so far (everything crossed after last year) and we don't seem to get European hornets here (i'm hoping the AH's won't like our windy salty sea air either.......).
Hefted all the hives which are all a good weight and checked the nucs. One seems to have either a failed mating or she didn't make it back as three weeks of no eggs or any sign of a queen. Popped a frame of eggs in to check but will probably unite with the weakest hive if Q-.
One nuc was rammed and has a laying but elusive queen. Saw her briefly last week (amber striped) but she scuttled away before I could find her to blob her with pink paint and couldn't find her this week but loads of eggs.

 

[elainemary]

If the pads had dried up after seven days then maybe the answer is to add another two for another week
Or get an InstantVap

Like the idea of this. Battery operated. However, I have a Sublimox which I bought before this came on the market. I only use the Sublimox for winter treatment when broodless, as the battery and inverter is a pain to lug around out apiaries, so I drag hubby along & he helps set it up. Need to think whether another £350 is a good investment!

P.s. Formic pro isn't available anywhere in the uk this summer, had to beg a friend for some...so adding more wasn't an option and the product should have worked as I followed the instructions to the letter. Strongly suspect its not as effective on big double broods

 

[hemo]

OMG! This is the mite drop on a colony that I started treating with Apistan 2 days ago (never used before so resistance unlikely)

The biggest shock to me though, is this colony was treated with Formic Pro on 15 Aug for 1 week as per the manufacturer guidelines. I’d completed a sugar shake the first week of Aug and it showed a 3% infection. I suspected something was not right though when mite drops continued at a relatively high rate after the Formic Pro treatment.

Either Formic Pro does not work effectively on v large colonies or they have been robbing another colony somewhere nearby. None of mine!

I suspect the Formic pro is the issue. No evidence of more honey coming into this hive than others in the same apiary. After doing some digging, Formic pro is different to Maqs - only 80% claimed effectiveness by the manufacturer and they’ve changed the outer paper on Formic pro so it’s released more gently to not kill bees or risk the queen. Wasn’t the old Maqs 90%+ effective?

I wonder if they’ve tested the ‘new product’ properly on big colonies….the formic pro after a week had no scent at all and had completely dried up.

Surely if the treatment WAS effective and the colony is robbing another, this number of mites couldn’t have hitched a ride in that short space of time? The treatment was taken off on 22 August. So only just over 2 weeks ago.

Bearing in mind Apistan only kills phoretic bees this number of mites and more, could still be in the sealed brood. V concerned now whether this colony will make it through winter as the virus loads must be v high.

What do you experienced beekeepers think, is it possible for this number of phoretic mites from a Rob-out in just 2 weeks? Plus up to 80% more in sealed brood?

The drop suggests the Apistan isn't effective and dispite your assumptions , that infact the mites do have resistance irrelevant of it not being used before.

 

[Ely]

Checked them out yesteday. Plenty of Ivy pollen going in. Strong smell of Ivy nectar being fanned as well.

 

[Erichalfbee]

The drop suggests the Apistan isn't effective and dispite your assumptions , that infact the mites do have resistance irrelevant of it not being used before.

No. The huge drop was after Apistan. Despite Formic Pro being used a month earlier

 

[hemo]

No. The huge drop was after Apistan. Despite Formic Pro being used a month earlier

Argh' beg pardon read your post incorrectly. I still wouldn't use apistan or bayvoral today not ust because of resistance but tainting and residues left in wax which could show up in honey later on.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I still wouldn't use apistan or bayvoral today

Neither would I but at least @elainemary has illustrated the limitations of Formic Pro.

 

[The Poot]

Against my better judgement, I went through all colony top boxes. I’ve usually stopped fiddling by now.
I wanted to see what stores the bees had and heft as a starter for the feeding season.
All colonies much, much larger than I’ve seen before in September and, although they didn’t do it for me, they are storing good quantities of nectar now. One colony has markedly less stores than the others and needs feeding to help them along. The others will be ok through to ivy time, which seems a little way off yet - the ivy still in tight bud. Lots of HB this year downstream.
It‘s been great to see the bees so active after such a dreary spell of weather. September has come to the rescue it seems.
Yesterday, while watching them being hawked by a couple of hornets, seven long tailed tits arrived on the peanut feeder close by me - the sun, the bees and the birds

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

nothing like watching tits in the afternoon sun

 

[elainemary]

Th

Argh' beg pardon read your post incorrectly. I still wouldn't use apistan or bayvoral today not ust because of resistance but tainting and residues left in wax which could show up in honey later on.

Thanks for your feedback. I’ve never used Apistan until last week - now as an emergency. I don’t know any beekeepers who use it either. I am using it in this problem colony only as I have run out of options. All supers are off. So only in the brood boxes (double brood).

The manufacturer advises if you haven’t used for 3 years resistance is unlikely. I’ve been beekeeping for 7 years. I’m impressed with the big drops as will be phoretic mites only - works over a 6 week period

I am also rigorous about changing combs and always follow the manufacturer guidelines

My priority is the health and well being of my colony

 

[elainemary]

Neither would I but at least @elainemary has illustrated the limitations of Formic Pro.

I’ve written to the Formic Pro manufacturer. I’m going to get to the bottom of this. Understand what testing and trials they’ve done.

I’m concerned the new Formic Pro doesn’t work effectively on large colonies and I would like to hear from other beekeepers who have noticed any issues.

Fortunately it hasn’t been widely available this year but next year it will - I want to limit problems for other beekeepers and understand if I have made any mistakes during its application too, though I followed their guidance

If using Formic Pro this season pls measure drops before during and after treatment so you know if it’s worked and let me know of any issues.

@Erichalfbee is it possible to move the posts on this into the original thread please so all together?

 

[The Poot]

I’ve written to the Formic Pro manufacturer and they have come back to me. I’m arranging a WhatsApp call with the European Director of Sales and Marketing. He’s from USA and a commercial beekeeper.

I’m going to get to the bottom of this! Understand what testing and trials they’ve done. I’m concerned the new Formic Pro doesn’t work effectively on large colonies and I would like to hear from other beekeepers who have noticed any issues. Fortunately it hasn’t been widely available this year but next year it will and I want to limit problems for other beekeepers. I want to understand from the supplier if I have made any mistakes during its application too.

Dani, is it possible to move the posts on this into the original thread please so all together.

I will keep the Forum updated.

Again I would like to hear from any members who have had issues with new Formic pro effectiveness.

If using this season pls measure drops before during and after treatment so you know if it’s worked and let me know of any issues! I like to problem solve

Thanks!

Good for you
I‘ll be interested in the outcome of this.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Dani, is it possible to move the posts on this into the original thread please so all together.

Yes I will as soon as I can.

 

[elainemary]

Good for you
I‘ll be interested in the outcome of this.

The NOD Apiary European Sales and Marketing Director (Formic Pro manufacturer) is a former commercial American beekeeper with over 35 years of experience in the field, currently located in Germany. He says he’s passionate about bees and would love to assist me. I’m looking forward to our discussion. I was impressed with his reply to my letter. We’re arranging to speak next week. He’s already given a few insights into its usage. I will share when I’ve followed up.

 

[The Poot]

The NOD Apiary European Sales and Marketing Director (Formic Pro manufacturer) is a former commercial American beekeeper with over 35 years of experience in the field, currently located in Germany. He says he’s passionate about bees and would love to assist me. I’m looking forward to our discussion. I was impressed with his reply to my letter. We’re arranging to speak next week. He’s already given a few insights into its usage. I will share when I’ve followed up.

It’s impressive and reassuring that he’s taking such an interest, so good on him.
I only used Maqs once and decided it was far too harsh a treatment and turned to vaping instead. Although the Varrox method is a bit of a faff to do, I like the fact that the disturbance is over in just a few minutes and it’s quickly “business as usual“ in the colony. The faff factor is ok with me as I only have a maximum of five colonies that are kept at home. when I used Maqs there were more bees on the outside of the hive than inside!
I hope the call goes well.

 

[gregior]

Removed 12 supers from 4 hives still a very good balsam flow on. I used clearer boards with and eke underneath to speed it up, 3 are rhombus and 1 is porter. The 3 rhombus boards worked a treat,the one with porter escapes was a right mess with lots of angry sticky bees unable to get out. That's me done with porter escapes,flippin useless things.

 

[elainemary]

It’s impressive and reassuring that he’s taking such an interest, so good on him.
I only used Maqs once and decided it was far too harsh a treatment and turned to vaping instead. Although the Varrox method is a bit of a faff to do, I like the fact that the disturbance is over in just a few minutes and it’s quickly “business as usual“ in the colony. The faff factor is ok with me as I only have a maximum of five colonies that are kept at home. when I used Maqs there were more bees on the outside of the hive than inside!
I hope the call goes well.

I am impressed but not fully reassured. I’m concerned. I went to my apiary yesterday and there are more significant drops. I’m monitoring a second colony much smaller that I also treated next door, in the same way. I’m still concerned re Formic Pro.

Like you, I’ve used MAQS only once - my first year as a beginner. However Formic Pro seemed a step on.

If there are any questions anyone believes I should ask the manufacturer please drop me a PM. I am speaking with NOD Apiary (manufacturers of Formic Pro) on Thursday next week.

Equally, the purpose of the call is to make sure I haven’t missed anything re the instructions I have followed. It may be a one off batch issue

Elaine