What are you going to do with winter losses?

[Finman]

.

I have read quite much special tricks here and I have found that after my 49 years in beekeeping has no value in your extra ordinary Isles. But I ask, why your winter losses are so high? Why your match sticks and super ventilating does not save colonies from cold.

Bees die for cold. That is why there are winter losses.


My long experience tells that succesfull wintering needs

1) a beestock which reacts correctly on Autumn and stops brood rearing.

2) there is a minimum size, how small cluster will survive over winter.
You have a long summer to build up the clony to the size which fill the whole box.
- it is merely dead out. Nosema is worse enemy than dead out.
- join colonies if they are too small. Spring buil up needs it too. No too early splits.

3) enough warm winter protection and no draft in the hive. So food will be enough to Spring.

4) Spring build up is more valuable than surviving alive over winter.

5) a succesful summer nursing that colonies will grow strong. It is vein effort to try rear them strong in Autumn.


6) minimum swarm size is one full box that it is able to become a normal colony. Join the swarms if they are small.

 

[For want of a better word]

Keep them warm dry and well fed.... bit like chickens!

 

[Heather]

Matchstick ventilation is an old boys trick - the new bee keeper hopefully has OMF and a sealed cover board. All access holes covered over.

 

[Suzi Q]

Point 3) How am I to have a spring build up if they don't survive over winter?

 

[Heather]

Your Assoc will surely help with an early swarm for you.

 

[Suzi Q]

Your Assoc will surely help with an early swarm for you.

Much better to over winter successfully!

 

[For want of a better word]

Matchstick ventilation is an old boys trick - the new bee keeper hopefully has OMF and a sealed cover board. All access holes covered over.

Not accordin to this months glossy.....................

 

[Heather]

Absolutely - didnt recognise the tongue in cheek .

But I do think there will be higher than average losses due to starvation this year. They are still flying and into stores already. Long time till March.

 

[Heather]

Not accordin to this months glossy.....................

I rest my case

 

[CB008]

Whilst I accept that they will in all probablity becoem short of food - it cannot be that difficult to wack on a slab of fondant and keep them fed. Last year I kept having to get hold of some candy in a hurry so this year bought enough to start with.

 

[Suzi Q]

Absolutely - didnt recognise the tongue in cheek .

But I do think there will be higher than average losses due to starvation this year. They are still flying and into stores already. Long time till March.

Yes, I finished feeding weeks ago, so was thinking of putting on fondant, this will be my first year of wintering bees so I really want to do it right! Has all that pollen that's been coming in the past few weeks been for rearing brood? And if so is that a good or bad thing, in terms of getting them through winter?

 

[oliver90owner]

1) a beestock which reacts correctly on Autumn and stops brood rearing.
Here, her. Queen importations at the front for this one, I daresay

2) there is a minimum size, how small cluster will survive over winter.
You have a long summer to build up the clony to the size which fill the whole box.
- it is merely dead out. Nosema is worse enemy than dead out.
- join colonies if they are too small. Spring buil up needs it too. No too early splits.

Agreed. Had too small colonies early on. Learned quickly.


3) enough warm winter protection and no draft in the hive. So food will be enough to Spring.

full 14 x12, insulated, no top ventilation. Recipe for success wit 1) and 2). (plus one other).
4) Spring build up is more valuable than surviving alive over winter.

Only true if you want some honey next year. Some don't seem to want a crop!!

5) a succesful summer nursing that colonies will grow strong. It is vein effort to try rear them strong in Autumn.

Agreed, but late splits can be OK. I certainly try to 'rear them strong' in the autumn. I think Finman means you canot rectify the situation of a poor colony, which relates directly back to point 2).

6) minimum swarm size is one full box that it is able to become a normal colony. Join the swarms if they are small.

Delete swarm and insert cluster? I then agree wholeheartedly. I normally overwinter on one box. Maybe for some, a standard deep brood box is not enough, although many have used this format successfully for many a year.

For once, I am in almost total agreement with what Finman has to say. I would say, though, that there are almost always alternatives to what anyone says, so alternatives are there - and I know mine work. Perhaps not for 69 years, but I have learned quickly in my ten years or so, keeping bees in Lincolnshire in England.

On top of this there are, of course many that are able to take a nucleus colony though the winter, so all the above really refer to full size hives. Some even use mating nucs with a feeder on top.

The one item missed out is 'healthy bees'. I try to make sure that all wintering bees have had the minimum of molestation by the varroa mite, for instance. Bees infected with pathogens from feeding varroa nymphs will not over winter as well as bees which are free of those pathogens. Too many varroa feeding on worker bees in the cluster is a problem to avoid. Oxalic acid is not a treatment for this, IMO. Too late to do so much good in this respect and unecessary if a good autumn treatment was effected. If the oxalic is actually killing lots of mites, the damage is already there by January. Think about it, draw a time-line and fill in projected injurious effects of the mite. You would see from that, what I mean (I would hope).

Too late, now, for all those that have not complied with the list. Probably most will get through with some TLC.

RAB

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

.

But I ask, why your winter losses are so high?

I didn't realise they were particularly high - what percentage normally die off in Finland?

 

[Crg]

1) a beestock which reacts correctly on Autumn and stops brood rearing.
Here, her. Queen importations at the front for this one, I daresay

Importation of queens increases the risk of importing new diseases, which could impact colony losses, but to raise it as an issue for Autumn brood rearing?
With such a large variety of bees that can be imported, it seems like a huge generalisation.

Certainly the queens I've imported in previous years probably decreases the amount of brood rearing too much in Autumn.

Winter losses have been so rare for me I don't consider it a problem.
Hopefully I'll be able to say the same next spring

 

[drstitson]

UK winter losses for last 2 years were of order of 19% and 15% according to the FERA and BBKA surveys. Upper 20s in the mild winter preceeding.

 

[Skyhook]

.

I have read quite much special tricks here and I have found that after my 49 years in beekeeping has no value in your extra ordinary Isles.

Dont give up Finman- we are listening!

 

[Finman]

UK winter losses for last 2 years were of order of 19% and 15% according to the FERA and BBKA surveys. Upper 20s in the mild winter preceeding.

strange data

i read a report winter losses in England and Wales 2010.
Losses were smallest in 2001 5% and have increased up to 15% now..

Then i read a report Aug 2009."last winter losses were 19%. On previous winter they were 30%".

In North England losses were in 2009/08 30%. In West Englad 13%.

***

 

[drstitson]

not really strange data - 2008/9 was mild and damp, both 2009/10 and 2010/11 have been very cold with snow laying for weeks in some places. so 28-30%, 19%, 15% either suggests our bees thrive on the cold OR that BKF advice has really hit the spot!!!!

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

strange data

i read a report winter losses in England and Wales 2010.
Losses were smallest in 2001 5% and have increased up to 15% now..

Then i read a report Aug 2009."last winter losses were 19%. On previous winter they were 30%".

In North England losses were in 2009/08 30%. In West Englad 13%.

***

According to BBKA survey recent winter losses have been

2007 30%
2008 19%
2009 18%
2010 14%

which looks like we may be on the right track, possibly due to improved knowledge, practises or treatments.

The survey split the country into 7 areas, North, North East, West, East, South West, South, South East. Interestingly the 2 areas with highest mortality over the four years were North and South, which makes blaming it on the climate difficult. Lowest was in East (hurrah!) and South East.

Any idea what recent Finnish losses are?

 

[drstitson]

thanks for that mons ab - i was just relying on memory snapshot.