what am I doing wrong??

[MJNT]

I have been keeping bees for a few years but only now feel I am beginning to understand that it is as much craft as science .
I have a prolific colony (double brood one of which is deep and 4 supers and still stuffed with bees but still not seen any sign of swarm preparation) I added a brood on top (almost need a step ladder) and....nothing just nurse bees helping as usual no qc's (two attempts) so I tried moving a frame of eggs from this hive plus an @insurance@ frame of bias from another hive with BIAS and a couple of frames of sealed brood plus extra bees to a nuc hoping to harvest queen cells I wanted to try incubating....after 4 days again nothing no emergency queen cells ..........any suggestions please!

 

[pargyle]

What are you trying to achieve ? More colonies ...?

If so ... the bees will only build queen cells if the swarming instinct kicks in or they are queenless. Most beekeeper spend their season trying to stop them swarming and would be gratefuk for your situation.

Making increase is easy ... just split a nuc off and make sure you have a frame with eggs on it in there, some stores and the bees off a few frame and make sure the queen is not in there ... they wlll make a new queen (or three or four).

I'd be happier doing it in May than July to be honest .... but there are still drones about. But .. three weeks takes you to beginning August and it's late to be seeing an increase. If you want another colony now - best think about buying in a mated queen.

 

[Boston Bees]

So, you want some queen cells to incubate, that is your target, right? Why? To sell them? To make a bunch of nucs? To just try it out? Why now?

Why would putting a brood box on top of a stack of supers trigger this? The bees will just view it as more space to store honey (or ignore it).

You have now created a nuc with some eggs, plus what you call an "insurance frame of BIAS" (what is it insuring against?) and sealed brood and extra bees. And they haven't drawn queen cells? Are there enough bees in there to do anything? Even keep the brood warm? Many will have been foragers who will fly home. Is it even possible there is a queen in there on the frame you transferred in?

Could you explain a bit more about your motivation and thinking here?

 

[MJNT]

My idea was to create new queen cells to give to other beeks that want to add a bit of genetic diversity to their apiaries nucs…they are going the same for me the big colony I keep expecting to start swarming preps I know it’s a good characteristic that they are not swarmy I used a demaree board and separated the upper brood from the lower using three supers assuming the queen pheromone would be diluted sufficiently to stimulate emergency qc production but no … eggs became larvae became sealed brood etc no So I thought I’d try lateral splitting so NO queen pheromone … I thought I’d put plenty of nurse bees with the frame of eggs and added 2 frames of bias but lots of sealed brood to replace nurse bees as they matured and went off foraging but again just eggs became larvae etc …is this me assuming something I shouldn’t or something that happens due to genetic predisposition so they aren’t too bothered about reproducing?

 

[madasafish]

To get bees to start QCs they must feel Queenless, and there must be young larvae - ideally under 24 hours from hatching - and there needs to be lots of pollen and nectar/honey stores And a flow on.



Was there a flow on and pollen stores nearby? Or were you feeding them sugar solution and pollen sub?

If no, little chance.

 

[MJNT]

Thanks for that. I’ll have another go I did give them a whole frame of capped honey first time and fed syrup the second but both times the stores disappeared pretty quickly so I was worried there might be robbing

 

[ericbeaumont]

big colony I keep expecting to start swarming preps

Why? Big does not = swarming.

Bear in mind that swarming fever abates (more or less) after the solstice on 21 June and is replaced (roughly) by the main nectar flow.

Good QCs can be made by doing the reverse of Pargyle's suggestion: put the Q in a nuc with a frame of sealed brood and a frame of stores plus two shakes of young bees.

Wait until sealed EQCs appear in the main colony (which will have plenty of nurse bees) then harvest. Leave one QC or re-unite the Q+ nuc.

All this is a faff and a fiddle and the genetic diversity you seek may already be present in your area.

How do you know it's not?

 

[MJNT]

I dont really but the other apiaries involved are several miles away so unlikely to be sharing drones That sounds far more sensible....Ill try that

 

[ericbeaumont]

the other apiaries involved are several miles away so unlikely to be sharing drones

No necessarily: queens and drones were reported to be able to fly up to 10 miles to mate, though more recent research shows that 90% occur within 4.6 miles.

More on mating flights from The Apiarist here and plenty in this research doc.