WBC with frame/box mismatch dilemma

[Lichfield Bee Man]

Hi all

I am a novice so feel free to roll your eyes...

We bought a WBC hive (wife loves the look, for the garden, not to be moved) and a nucleus from a bee auction. We moved the bees into the hive (this was May), and have now a brood and a half, plus two supers. But it doesn't fit together properly. A local fellow beek came by earlier to look at my bees, and has highlighted this as an issue.

The frames that came in the nucleus are 430mm or 17" across the top of the frame - long lugs. Standard, I believe? These do not sit within the machined recess of the box, and therefore sit proud. We bought a WBC 'hive kit' from ******, and have dutifully knocked up more frames, all of which are 17" across the top and again do NOT sit correctly on the brood box/box. Being novices/idiots we just bumbled on...so the hive is riddled with man-made gaps and now I realise it will be annihilated by wasps later this season unless we sort it out.

Options;

- saw the lugs down quickly on a jigsaw and inevitably annoy my guests, but then they'll fit and in future buy 'less wide' frames to fit the boxes I have (which are 430 mm wide, 390 recess to recess)...although I don't what these would be?
- buy 'bigger' boxes so that these long-lugged frames sit correctly - but will such a box fit in a WBC, and I don't see sizes on boxes advertised, just the usual '14 x 12' description - is this the foundation width, or the overall lug width I wonder?

Mystery question - how did we end up with a WBC hive and mismatched boxes and frames? I am calling ****** tomorrow to explore that one.

Any advice/comments most welcome...thank you

 

[plumberman]

Unfortunately I'm guessing that you have made up the box incorrectly - you do need to make sure that the end of the box that has the runners on it is correctly positioned below the top of the sides so that the top of the frames are flush with the box.

Equally unfortunately none of your options are sensible, either because there is only one size of box for a WBC, or any form of frame surgery will create a nightmare in the future when you come to expand or need to swap frames around between hives.

Any chance of a photograph of the problem?

 

[Poly Hive]

Welcome to the wonderful world of the WBC.

Having over the years bought colonies in more than a few of these I know that many a DIYer has made them. Rarely do two sets of lifts fit another hive.

Your 17" top bar is correct. Your box is not. Check the space between the brood box and the lifts to see if from a WBC plan that space is either right or there is enough space for a proper WBC brood to fit, and take it from there.

Frankly I canna see the vendor of the frames being much interested in a 2nd hand hive that they didn't make?

Good luck

PH

 

[Tom Bick]

It all sounds a bit odd.

A photo can speak a thousand words and may put you on the right tracks.

Your wife is right in a garden environment the WBC looks great.

 

[For want of a better word]

How old are your WBC type hives ?
I have amassed a hotchpotch of WBC parts over the years, and now have three differnt "sets"
one lot take std ( almost) National boxes 18 x 18... about 1/4 ~5/8 smaller
another Robert Lee .. that seem to be the Thorgns patten
and yet another that are top bee space on castellated runners with 10 frame long boxes.
To avoid confusion I have marked each set
OH WHY OH WHY DID I NOT GO FOR POLLY LANGSTROTHS>>>>??????

 

[Poly Hive]

Only you can answer that one...lol

PH

 

[pooh-bear]

Been trying to send you a PM but can't til I've posted 3 times.......

 

[itma]

...
We bought a WBC hive ...

Mystery question - how did we end up with a WBC hive and mismatched boxes and frames? ...

It would have helped if you had revealed where this "WBC" hive had come from.
/ Did it come from the auction as well as the bees?

Just to throw in one more conjecture (since info is lacking), is it possible that the boxes inside the WBC cladding could be (short-lugged) Smith hives?

 

[Andy Duff]

OH WHY OH WHY DID I NOT GO FOR POLLY LANGSTROTHS>>>>??????[/QUOTE]

DITTO

But just think of the valuable lessons we are learning every time we don't quite get it right.

 

[For want of a better word]

Only you can answer that one...lol

PH

​

THANKS,,, will go buy a lottery ticket !!!

 

[Lichfield Bee Man]

Thanks all - I will post pics in the morning if it isn't tipping it down along with dimensions

The hive and boxes were new, delivered flat pack. Came from a major supplier that rhymes with Haynes. They were assembled by my wife so I shall dutifully dismiss that as a route of enquiry for now....however I think Plumberman and Poly Hive have a point here, it is the box/box assembly that is dodgy

Thank you for your responses, much appreciated. Pooh Bear, look forward to your PM

 

[oliver90owner]

OH WHY OH WHY DID I NOT GO FOR POLLY LANGSTROTHS

Because the bl***y parrot kept saying 'Pretty boy' instead of 'Get a lanstroth'?

My original WBCs were different, little was exchangeable between them, apart from the frames.

I once had to change a brood box for a beginner after he had bought a National hive at a bee auction. 'Bee space' at frame side bars to hive wall was about 2mm!

That is one good reason for beginners to start with new, or at least from a reputable source.

National boxes will fit most WBC outer lifts with not much to spare. Yours may or may not accept a national brood and supers, so you need to measure up carefully (if tight on space).

However your measurement of 390mm is about right for the short lugged Smith frames where the frame top bar is about 387mm. So I expect your problem would be solved with those frames. Your stockist may have them or you can buy just the top bars from Th8rne (I think). Probably better than sawing off the lugs unless you have a table saw.

RAB

 

[itma]

... I will post pics in the morning if it isn't tipping it down along with dimensions

The hive and boxes were new, delivered flat pack. Came from a major supplier that rhymes with Haynes. They were assembled by my wife so I shall dutifully dismiss that as a route of enquiry for now....however ...

... your measurement of 390mm is about right for the short lugged Smith frames where the frame top bar is about 387mm. So I expect your problem would be solved with those frames. Your stockist may have them or you can buy just the top bars from Th8rne ...

I thought it sounded like the box takes Smith frames.
The other dimensions should reveal whether it is actually a Smith box rather than the WBC that was ordered.

 

[Andy Duff]

And the moral of this tale is-
Unless you have lots of experience.
Join a bee-keeping association, get your bees and equipment from a reputable source and bee-keeping can not be done on the cheep.

(I must remember to listen to my own advice)

 

[scuttlefish]

OH WHY OH WHY DID I NOT GO FOR POLLY LANGSTROTHS

Because the bl***y parrot kept saying 'Pretty boy' instead of 'Get a lanstroth'?

Funny, I could have sworn Polly Langstroth was a girl... wasn't she one of his daughters...?

 

[Lichfield Bee Man]

Hi all

Think we solved it - upon assembly, my wife nailed in some superfluous looking strips that now 'block up' the recess upon which said frames would dangle and form a flat top, sealing the hive. Except they don't!

So, I shall construct the new boxes most carefully myself, with a frame to hand.

Pics to follow just for a laugh but will be next week as away this weekend

J

PS big thank you to Chris, local fellow beek who has popped down and helped me

 

[susbees]

Welcome to the wonderful world of the WBC.

Having over the years bought colonies in more than a few of these I know that many a DIYer has made them. Rarely do two sets of lifts fit another hive.

Quite. I have a mentee with a heap of these from a retired beekeeper...random WBC brood boxes, a few Nats. Big jigsaw. Huge headache.

 

[plumberman]

Did the hive not have assembly instructions? If not, look on the downloads section of the Scottish Beekeepers site (google sbka). There is a comprehensive set of plans /construction details that should help you.

 

[drstitson]

answer is to borrow a couple of boxes for your bees and frames to occupy whilst you remove the offending timber from yours.

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

answer is to borrow a couple of boxes for your bees and frames to occupy whilst you remove the offending timber from yours.

..... making sure, if course, that you run a blowtorch over them before and after using them.

D