WBC in uPVC ?

[pargyle]

From one 'bodger' to another ... True RESPECT ... AWESOME ...

However, you are aware that there is probably only ONE person on the entire INTERNET let alone the FORUM who is remotely interested in replicating this incredible bit of ingenuity ... and even he would not entertain even considering the idea of constructing a set of WBC lifts out of reclaimed hollow plastic shiplap cladding ...

Now ... I wonder who he is ???

 

[BeeJayBee]

Wow! Brilliant!

Am I the only person who thought a sled was something to do with winter, and snow?

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

It's actually a lot simpler to do than the rather wordy description above suggests. The challenging bit (for me) was figuring out how to do it.

LJ

SERIOUS respect. Thank you for that. Amazing.

 

[Little John]

SERIOUS respect. Thank you for that. Amazing.

The secret behind all this is, of course, the router - despite having spent most of my life around tools of various kinds, I'm only in my second year of using one. For decades I've being dismissing them as just 'toys' for making fancy architrave with - and that's about all ...

Got that seriously wrong - they really are the most versatile of tools.

Ok - progress so far: have now made 2 x lifts, only to discover that I've "over-egged the pudding" with the splay or flair angle.

So - will be reducing the angle tomorrow, then make a couple more.

Such are the trials and tribulations of prototyping ...

LJ

 

[itma]

I think every WBC I've seen inside of has at least one bit that doesn't fit properly - usually because it had started life on another WBC ...

 

[pargyle]

Such are the trials and tribulations of prototyping ...

LJ

Been there, done that !!

 

[Brian Bush]

I built my own wbc hives to take national boxes and an omf. I made the lifts from recycled wood but was looking at the pvc cladding we used this year on the house and thought what good lifts it would make. To make my lifts I just used the normal plans for wbc lifts and made them a little longer to incorporate the national boxes. I built a stand to take the ordinary omf floor so I can change and clean it each year. I dare not risk spending money on pvc cladding!!SWMBO would take a dim view!!

 

[Little John]

Strong and very cold northerly winds today, so no work being done (no protection from that direction) - so here's a quick update pic from in the lee of the house:

It's coming on I suppose (have mixed feelings about it) - but WBC it is certainly NOT. Pity.

LJ

 

[Little John]

It's coming on I suppose (have mixed feelings about it) - but WBC it is certainly NOT. Pity.

Well, I'm no 'arty' person, but I've just figured out why:

To get the 'WBC effect', you really need to use single planks, and with a slightly wider 'splay' angle. Double planks on each lift make it look like so much uPVC cladding - which of course, is exactly what it is. Bummer.

LJ

 

[itma]

...
It's coming on I suppose (have mixed feelings about it) - but WBC it is certainly NOT. Pity.

Doesn't look bad at all. "Well done you."
Cosmetically, imho the roof would look better with some non-functional (green?) roofing felt tacked over, and a wooden strip along the peak...


The horizontal 'groove' in each lift produces an odd 'visual rhythm'.
What does the other side of your plastic section look like?
And does the wooden original have sides that are further off the vertical?

Have you worked out the floor and entrance detail yet?


/cross-posted, but I'll let it stand.

 

[Little John]

Doesn't look bad at all. "Well done you."
Cosmetically, imho the roof would look better with some non-functional (green?) roofing felt tacked over, and a wooden strip along the peak...

Thanks.

I agree with both of those suggestions. I very nearly glued a strip of wood down the centre of the roof against which to butt those wide planks, but thought I'd go for all-PVC weather-tightness instead. A mistake from the cosmetic POV, sure.
I could always paint the roof a 'fun' colour - might indeed give that a go. And perhaps glue on some edging strip to give the impression of a thicker roof profile.

The horizontal 'groove' in each lift produces an odd 'visual rhythm'.

We concur on that one too - I describe that effect as 'being visually busy' - seems the eye is drawn to that kind of detail, rather than just looking at a blank plate.

What does the other side of your plastic section look like?

Seriously weird. I guess it's been developed for maximum utility value - that shape certainly makes a thin plank quite stiff.

And does the wooden original have sides that are further off the vertical?

Have a look at:
http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/wbc.html

It shows the original WBC with parallel sides, together with the hive which we've all come to recognise as being the classic WBC, with the flaired lifts. I checked out the WBC plans on Beesource, and the flair (or 'splay' as I call it) results directly from the thickness of the overlapping timber planks used.

You'll have noticed that the uPVC profile has the tongue already offset inwards, so this results in a less flaired lift angle if the same 'fitting tolerance' between lifts is used.
I did start off by making a couple of lifts with exaggerated angles, which look better (or would, if they were one piece, and not two), but they would have required very wide battens to sit on the tongue of the lift below - so I didn't pursue that idea any further.

Have you worked out the floor and entrance detail yet?

I'm in a bit of a dilemma now. To my mind, what makes the WBC such a 'cute' design, is threefold: it's 'Chinese' hat; the flaired lifts; and the stubby 'sticky-out' feet.

But - it doesn't look like it's possible to re-create that effect with this particular uPVC cladding - so right now I'm thinking of just accepting that this will be a 'PVC overcoat' rendering a National hive completely weather-tight, but nothing more than that.

So - I now need to fit internal support battens all round, and make a fitting to ensure that the lid doesn't fly off in a gale - 'cause it's very, very light.

Hopefully my next post will show the finished article.

'best
LJ

 

[BeeJayBee]

It doesn't look as bad as you think, bit I do agree it might be too fussy a pattern for some.

Almost all the WBCs I've seen have been in need of quite a lot of attention, not least because of the paint peeling off.

 

[Little John]

Well, that's it for now:

It certainly looks a lot better with the false ridge and dark roof (thanks for those suggestions).

The only bit missing in the photo is the rod which fits into the hole in the gable end, which locks the roof onto the top lift ('cause I painted it, and it's still wet).
Only now do I realise that the roof could just as easily be glued directly onto the top lift ! Duhhhh

From an aesthetic POV, there's still something 'wrong', and I'm aware of what it is, and how to cure it - but I won't say owt until somebody else flags it up. Which I'm sure they will, as it's pretty obvious.

I'll make another set of lifts & a roof over winter, this time with the (.....) corrected.

And then it's on to the long hives, where I think this uPVC cladding will really score.

LJ

 

[madasafish]

No doubt you will start the bottom lift at floor level rather than perched precariously above the entrance....

 

[victor meldrew]

Plus the obligatory bee escape
VM


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[oliver90owner]

In addition, it is missing the added stability of a wider footprint.

Part of the quaintness of the WBC (apart from those angled legs/feet) was the canopy over the entrance and the adjustable slides for a single entrance - bunged entry/exit holes do not really cut the mustard from an aethsetics point of view.

Apart from that, I've not really looked at the rest of the thread, so the comments above may have been covered previously.

RAB

 

[Little John]

No doubt you will start the bottom lift at floor level rather than perched precariously above the entrance....

There's nothing perched precariously - the bottom lift rests on battens, and the whole assembly is pulled down onto them with a cord.

No need for a bee escape, as bees cannot pass between the lifts and boxes.

Oliver is on the money with the lack of feet (which I mentioned in an earlier post) - but that's the result of this being a retro-fit, with bees still in residence.

I'll be making a purpose-made base with the next one, which will be constructed 'sans bees'.

LJ

 

[REDWOOD]

Well done you for carrying out the project from idea, construction to completion and not a bad job either, how did you strengthen the corners after

 

[pargyle]

Well done you for carrying out the project from idea, construction to completion and not a bad job either, how did you strengthen the corners after

+1 ... great job using reclaimed materials and you've ended up with something that looks right ... and if it 'looks right' it probably will be right.

I'll look foward to your take on a 'Long Hive' with some interest .... My next Long hive was going to be clad outside with 5mm 'Stokbord' ... made out of recycled plastic milk bottles alongside other things ... but ... I've just discovered that 'Stokbord' expands or contracts by up to 10mm per metre run per 10 degrees C variation in temperature !!! The prospect of banana shaped hives for up to 8 hours a day has caused me to rethink this as a cladding material !! Pity, it was pretty near ideal in many other respecrs ...

Back to the drawing board !!!

 

[Little John]

Well done you for carrying out the project from idea, construction to completion and not a bad job either, how did you strengthen the corners after

Thanks again. Much to my surprise I found that there wasn't any need to strengthen the corners. The compound mitre joints are a sub-millimetre flush fit (thanks to Mr. Router) and were cemented together with Wickes (re-badged Hunter Plastics) Solvent Cement which, although designed for connecting PVC pipes, does an unexpectedly fine bonding job with uPVC. It not only contains MEK as the classic solvent, but 20% epoxy resin as well. Extraordinary stuff. I subjected the corner of one lift to a 1 metre 'drop test' onto soft ground, and it survived - so I've left the corners 'as first glued'.

I had some difficulty sourcing a really good uPVC-to-wood bonding agent for attaching the battens onto the inside of the lifts: I tried silicone rubber, Sixaflex, and so on. Also tried using an intermediate layer of plastic mesh: bonding this to the uPVC with the solvent cement, then bonding the wood to the mesh using a D4 resin-based wood adhesive. All were 'ok', but not exactly brilliant. Then I discovered Evo-Stik GripFill - this stuff really is the dog's whatsits.

The only slight downside is that it's petroleum-based, and petrol fumes do leech out of the joint for a few days even after it sets. So that's why there's been a delay in fitting the lifts to an occupied hive.

Should any uncertainty about the corners develop in the future, then I'll simply re-cement them with the Wickes goo, and then run a bead of Gripfill up along the inside edge of each corner.

Regards,
LJ