Wasps - have I missed something?

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Have not seen that many wasps around up here yet, just one or two. Have traps out and the entrances have been reduced.
 
A good aid to defence is a warm hive. This means more of the bees are ready and available for defence and that those bees will be closer to the entrance. Bees with higher body temperatures have been shown to be more assertive, I' dig out the research. The longer entrance tunnels that keep a nest warm can also assist in the defence.

does that mean wasps 'warm up' quicker than bees then ? would kinda make sense, as the predator it would want to be up and about whilst the prey are asleep. the bugger flying straight in the front door this morning certainly seemed perkier than the bees on duty at least.

thanks

D
 
Haven't seen a wasp round here yet just finished picking my apples (of the three trees one has a heavy crop the others nowt due to the bad spring) and not one of them has wasp damage - no wasps at all on the windfalls either:)
 
We know that in areas where pest controllers are actively eradicating nests there is frequently a rebound nuisance wasp problem. Typically we see this around theme parks and zoos and it does sound strange but it's true that if wasp nests are treated before they mature and at the wrong time of day it only serves to create more nuisance wasps and increases risk to human health and bee hives!

But this is just your theory isnt it?
No hard evidence to prove this theory?

I would argue that you are in fact wrong, just by counting the number of dead wasps in a nest after treatment isnt sufficient to prove your theory.

Having treated "thousands" of wasp nests, i would argue that a large proportion of wasps actually leave the nest soon after treatment is applied. Returning wasps enter, some come back out, in fact its chaos.

I suggest you attend a few treatments and watch carefully what happens.
Have you ever counted the number of dead wasps on the ground around a treated nest area?

Just because a theory suits your cause, doesnt make it fact.
 
What is a high efficiency trap then?

Efficiency is the proportion of wasps that a trap catches that are killed by the trap. So a high efficiency trap will kill all of the wasps that it catches. A low efficiency trap will allow a certain percentage of wasps to escape.

Pop bottle traps, jam jar traps, wasp pots etc depending on design are as little as 10% efficient.

Wasp traps attract wasps on two levels; i.e. at a trap level and at a communication level. High efficiency traps only attract wasps at the trap level. Low efficiency traps attract wasps on both levels.

Communication is where escaping wasps return to their nests to recruit more wasps.

Low efficiency traps will always kill more wasps than high efficiency traps BUT they always increase risk because they end up attracting more wasps than they kill because they attract wasps that would otherwise not be drawn into the area to be protected.

When Legoland was called to account by Anne Robinson on BBC Watchdog because of their horrendous wasp problem, they were using hundreds of wasp pots at the time (and were injudiciously eradicating nests). Those traps were substituted for high efficiency traps and hey presto, the wasp problem virtually disappeared (the caveat here is that the high efficiency wasp traps were used as a tool as part of Integrated Wasp Management and nest eradication was done on a judicious basis).
 
Wasps will take bees and in particular bee larvae as a source of protein to feed their own grubs.

Never ever seen a wasp or hornet get into a colony and take larvae although I have seen hornets take bees from in front of the hive and seen wasps collect discarded larvae that the bees have dragged out.

Perhaps that's what you meant.

Chris
 
Never ever seen a wasp or hornet get into a colony and take larvae although I have seen hornets take bees from in front of the hive and seen wasps collect discarded larvae that the bees have dragged out.

Perhaps that's what you meant.

Chris

I don't know - but the robbing of larvae might explain how there were four emergency queen cells in my robbed out hive and no other larvae/brood whatever. I did wonder where on earth they had got the larvae from for the emergency cells.
 
Never ever seen a wasp or hornet get into a colony and take larvae although I have seen hornets take bees from in front of the hive and seen wasps collect discarded larvae that the bees have dragged out.

Perhaps that's what you meant.

Chris

Again this is a relatively rare occurence because for wasps to attack a hive on that level is a high risk event but it does happen. Not only will wasps attack hives, they will also attack other wasp colonies, again to rob out the larvae. These events happen under conditions of extremis when other less risky food sources aren't so readily available and they tend to happen as the (wasp) brood stock is at its height within the nest, i.e. just before maturation. The foragers then go into a hunting frenzy to bring on the sexual progeny on time.

It wouldn't surprise me if poor JB's bees were robbed out for protein. That may also explain why he hadn't any bees left and I don't recall if JB said anything about larvae remaining in the hive. If the wasps were after sweet food then the larvae would remain untounched and there would be bee bodies strewn all over the place.
 
It wouldn't surprise me if poor JB's bees were robbed out for protein. That may also explain why he hadn't any bees left and I don't recall if JB said anything about larvae remaining in the hive. If the wasps were after sweet food then the larvae would remain untounched and there would be bee bodies strewn all over the place.

Interesting. I lost a weak nuc to wasps last week. They cleaned the feeder out completely and there was not a single bee or larva left. I had put a frame of brood in to try and boost numbers but even all of these had gone. Would they be after sweet and meat?
 
But this is just your theory isnt it?
No hard evidence to prove this theory?

I would argue that you are in fact wrong, just by counting the number of dead wasps in a nest after treatment isnt sufficient to prove your theory.

Having treated "thousands" of wasp nests, i would argue that a large proportion of wasps actually leave the nest soon after treatment is applied. Returning wasps enter, some come back out, in fact its chaos.

I suggest you attend a few treatments and watch carefully what happens.
Have you ever counted the number of dead wasps on the ground around a treated nest area?

Just because a theory suits your cause, doesnt make it fact.

I know that pest controllers perceive me as a threat because I challenge the orthodox view on nest eradication. I can only tell you that I have been successful in reducing sting rates in themes parks and zoos by over 99% compared to 'orthodox' wasp control, i.e. predominantly nest eradication and use of wasp pots.

Those theme parks and zoos with a proactive nest treatment programme all exhibited extended nuisance wasp seasons starting well before nests were maturing elsewhere. When the same theme parks and zoos swopped to judicious nest treatment, i.e. treating all nests before 7.00 am on a risk assessed basis and swopped wasp pots out for high efficiency traps (use as part of IWM), then a) the nuisance wasp season reverted to type in common with other areas and b) the number of sting cases reported fell by over 99%. This is over several seasons and a number of different sites. You are entitled to perceive that as theory. Those theme parks and zoos however will not revert to historical wasp control methods as they have introduced corporate wide policies (including formal strategies, integrated management teams and continuity measures including repeat annual training) precisely because they don't perceive it as theory but because they've had first hand experience to the contrary.

You are correct that wasps do leave nests that are treated to drop dead all over the place. But these are resident wasps (sentries and queen and brood attendants) of which there are about 200 - 300 per nest. It may also be the case that nests treated just prior to maturation with newly emerged queens and drones may have a further 1,500 to 3,000 sexual progeny. Again, these will leave the nest if the nest is treated to drop dead all over the place. However, these are not foragers of which there will be between 2,000 to 5,000 in an average nest rising to 20,000 in a large nest. These will by and large remain outside the nest never to re-enter (save for one caveat).

I have attended plenty of wasp nest treatments and performed quite a bit of hands on research as well. Foraging wasps will not re-enter the nest if they don't get landing rights from their sentries. If however, the sentry point is remote from the nest (e.g. eaves on a roof) and the sentries aren't incapacitated when the nest is treated then foragers will return into the body of the remote treated nest (e.g. one in the body of an attic away from the entry point at the eaves) and be killed.

My cause is protecting people from wasp stings and I make no apology in honouring my sworn professional oath to put patients first. I'm not a threat to pest controllers as IWM is in fact revenue positive compared to (injudicious) nest eradication. Furthermore, I have no wish to disenfranchise pest controllers. Why would I? They are an essential component to my cause. If I am a threat to any one then it's agrochem companies that sell tanker loads of pesticides because preserving wasps will reduce the need for general use pesticides and because judicious nest eradication will limit the use of pesticides to those nests that are a direct health threat. Neither of which is a problem to pesties who adopt IWM.
 
Interesting. I lost a weak nuc to wasps last week. They cleaned the feeder out completely and there was not a single bee or larva left. I had put a frame of brood in to try and boost numbers but even all of these had gone. Would they be after sweet and meat?

Unfortunately the wasp life cycle doesn't have crisply defined stages. Rather they overlap as one phase transitions into the next so yes it is the case that you will see meat and sweet feeding at the same time. This is explained on two levels. The first is that once the nest has matured and the queen stops laying eggs there will be a residue of grubs in the nest that still need feeding. These grub numbers will however tail off. As they tail off so fewer of the adult wasps will have access to sweet food from the grubs so these wasps start sweet foraging. The remaining grubs still need protein so an ever decreasing number of foragers will still go out hunting for protein. The second level is that different species will mature at slightly different times (and in adverse weather conditions colonies from the same species may also mature at different times).

So the effect that is seen is that for a few days and perhaps a couple of weeks during transition, wasps may be seen sweet and meat feeding. Having said all of that, foraging wasps are also opportunists and if during hunting they stumble on a free sweet lunch then they will exploit it for themselves without communicating it back to their nests (so no swarm feeding on sweet foods whilst there are grubs in the nest). That may also explain why both the larvae/bees as well as the food have disappeared.

Oh and PS, I forgot to say that hives can be simultaneously attacked by hunting wasps from immature nests and from rebound nuisance wasps (i.e. nests that have been treated where foragers are denied food from their own grubs)
 
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Hi Karol, I don’t perceive you as a threat, but I do not like to see info posted as fact when that is not the case, especially when it’s my business that you are talking about.

We have been here before, and once again I will ask you to explain your theory of “landing rights” in the case where folk have blocked the entrance to a nest (not treated it with insecticide) and days afterwards there are foraging wasps still trying to get into the nest, by any means possible (even chewing their way in)

When a nest IS treated with insecticide, an hour or two after treatment there are virtually no wasps present. Are you really trying to tell me that when a nest is treated, all the foragers simply fly off away from their home with no hope left whatsoever? Yet stick some expanding foam into the entrance of the nest and they will be determined to get back in for days afterwards.

Your theory is that wasps need some form of visual nod to gain access to the nest, right? So why would they give up so quickly with a treated nest, yet plug on for days with a nest that is blocked?

You can fool some people some of the time, but you can’t fool everyone all of the time.
 
How do you explain no other capped brood or larvae?

Chris

Can't explain, just baffled. Can only guess bees were putting all their resources into protecting these cells, but it didn't make any sense to me when I saw it. There were a few dead chalkbrood and a dozen (if that) dead bees on the floor. Otherwise five-six seams of healthy looking bees and another moderate number in the super (which had some stores left). Have given up trying to understand what the hell has been going on this year because it has all been b******s.
Varroa drop had been zero to four on a two-night check after every inspection for months, no other sign of disease though they are about to get treated with Hivemaker's thymol regime anyway.
:beatdeadhorse5:
 
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I have only seen one single wasp all year, Have I missed something !!!

The only wasps I've seen in our area was last Sunday in the association apiary - they'd found an open box of slightly dampened fondant in the back of the store shed - only four or five of them though.
Is it possibly the false spring we had has caught a lot of queens out house hunting and wiped a lot of them out? Could a dearth of new queens this autumn mean less around next summer as well?
 
There is only one single wasp in this area as well,saw it for the second time yesterday afternoon..
 

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