Wasps - have I missed something?

[Karol]

If my maths are correct then that is one every 55 yards.

It does sound a lot I know but I try to put it into context like this: Medium density housing these days is 40 dwellings per hectare. That's equivalent to 10,360 dwellings per square mile. That's the equivalent of 1 in 10 homes having a nest somewhere on their property. Put like that it really isn't that high a number.

 

[Travelator]

If my maths are correct then that is one every 55 yards.

I think your maths is good, assuming you mean one every 55 yards squared (ie. one every 3000 square yards or so). But another way of putting it would be "one to two wasp nests per acre", which doesn't sound nearly as scary.

 

[Karol]

I think your maths is good, assuming you mean one every 55 yards squared (ie. one every 3000 square yards or so). But another way of putting it would be "one to two wasp nests per acre", which doesn't sound nearly as scary.

Quite right

For beeks though, this does translate to between 2,000,000 to 5,000,000 wasps per square mile based on average nest sizes rising to 20,000,000 wasps per square mile for larger nests. When you take into account the two mile flying radius that wasps are capable of, that jumps to between 25,000,000 to 250,000,000 wasps within range of a hive.

Clearly, hives aren't attacked by such concentrations of wasps simply because there are other competing food sources which dilute the attacks. However, when food is scarce, (normally when fruit yields are low), then it's easy to understand how hives can quickly become vulnerable.

I'm still getting reports of wasp nests that are still growing and not yet matured (i.e. foragers not yet sweet feeding). What I'm not clear about is the density of colonies that are out there. It's not clear whether wasp colony numbers are depressed or merely delayed in their development. There are a number of factors which have clouded monitoring. The weather has certainly delayed development (by as much as 6 to 8 weeks we believe). Peoples' outdoor behaviour this year has been uncharacteristic with many people staying in doors because of the weather, jubilee and the olympics. Being indoors, they've not been seeing or reporting wasps. It's interesting that the pest controllers that we deal with have had a 90 to 95% reduction in the number of nests treated compared to the same time last year BUT in the last few days they have treated more nests than they have for the whole of the rest of the year combined.

I honestly don't know which way things will turn out but I do suggest that beeks stay vigilant because there are sufficient risk indicators to suggest that there may be a late rebound which might be quite harsh because of the lack of naturally available food, especially once the ivy stops flowering.

 

[herefordshirehoney]

Saw first wasps nest of the year at allotment today - wasn't on my plot though so not much I could do.

 

[alldigging]

Saw first wasps nest of the year at allotment today - wasn't on my plot though so not much I could do.

Could you not offer to deal with it? Or put wasp traps on your own?

 

[herefordshirehoney]

Could you not offer to deal with it? Or put wasp traps on your own?

My bee's are over 3 miles away will mention it when I see them but this was at 730 this morning and I was the only one up their =). I've never dealt with a wasp nest was an underground nest too just to be awkward.

 

[Chris Luck]

Fear eats the soul.

I have wasp and hornet nests in and around my apiaries year after year after year and never have any problems with them other than causing the bees some minor irritation.

If a colony is that weak at this time of year it isn't worth keeping in my view.

Chris

 

[Karol]

My bee's are over 3 miles away will mention it when I see them but this was at 730 this morning and I was the only one up their =). I've never dealt with a wasp nest was an underground nest too just to be awkward.

It doesn't sound as though the nest is doing much harm where it is so I'd be tempted to leave it be. Nests should only be eradicated when they are a direct threat to human health. During the hunting phase of the wasp life cycle, injudicious nest eradication by enlarge increases the number of nuisance wasps that are then likely to plague bee hives. I know it sounds counter-intuitive but destroying nests only serves to increase risk to bee hives unless the eradication takes place after the nest has matured or if eradication is done first thing in the morning before the foragers have flown.

If the nest isn't a direct problem I'd suggest to leave it well alone.

 

[Teemore]

I never like to hear about colonies getting robbed out like this.

I am fortunate in that I do not and have not had a wasp problem in any of my apiaries: long may that continue! I may have the local badger populations to thank for keeping the number of ground nesting wasp colonies in check.....

I saw perhaps half a dozen Queen wasps early in the season and then nothing for most of the summer. During August i saw a similar number of Queen wasps flying around which makes me think that they had 'reset' and young queen wasps were back trying to establish colonies. To back this up, I saw 'some' worker wasps during August and these were predominantly small, just like the workers you would see early in the season. Last week when i did the rounds of 40+ colonies, I encountered a grand total of 5 wasps scouting around hives. A lot of these hives were in or near orchards where there is a fair amount of fallen fruit which would draw in wasps. Walking around those orchards there was no sign of wasps feeding on the windfalls.
I have only seen a single wasp nest this year and that was discovered by a householder digging up plants in mid August and it was much smaller than any I have seen in the past.

 

[Chris Luck]

To back this up, I saw 'some' worker wasps during August and these were predominantly small, just like the workers you would see early in the season.

Are you actually identifying the species of these "wasps"?

As I imagine all bee keepers will know different "wasp" species are different sizes and identification will usually require capture and close inspection.

I just plucked this from the net and it looks quite good.

http://www.eakringbirds.com/eakringbirds2/insectswaspsidentification.htm

Chris

 

[jimsbees]

Great post, Chris. I shall catch a wasp tomorrow and peruse it. I am surprised at all these people seeing so few wasps. Every year I can guarantee to see loads of them especially round our fruit. This year they are all over the garden in the places where the bees would have been. The bees did fight them off last year so I accept your view that something else was probably going wrong.
What annoys me most was not seeing anything until armegeddon occurred!

I spent some time watching the battle trying to come up with a solution and wasps were falling to the ground like snowdrops round the entrance during the battle. I expected the bees to win at first and then I started to worry they would just be outnumbered, After all, a bee dies when it stings so numbers matter. I then read somewhere that it takes 5 bees to kill one wasp.

I knew it was all over then.

 

[DaveJNeal]

mmmm, having seen a fair number of wasps lately in the garden, I was keeping a sharp eye on things lately - reduced entrance blocks, killing those single wasps I saw, etc.

I've just seen a wasp fly completely unopposed into one of my hives - doesn't appear to be that much activity going on but still a bit chilly here in Essex ( cloudless night, so temp dropped ).

open up now and risk the chill or leave it until the suns on the box ?

dont wanna come all this way thru the year and lose them all to yellows.

Apart from traps and reduced entrances - anything I can do ? close the hive completely for a day maybe ?

thanks in advance

DaveN

 

[Karol]

I never like to hear about colonies getting robbed out like this.

I am fortunate in that I do not and have not had a wasp problem in any of my apiaries: long may that continue! I may have the local badger populations to thank for keeping the number of ground nesting wasp colonies in check.....

I saw perhaps half a dozen Queen wasps early in the season and then nothing for most of the summer. During August i saw a similar number of Queen wasps flying around which makes me think that they had 'reset' and young queen wasps were back trying to establish colonies. To back this up, I saw 'some' worker wasps during August and these were predominantly small, just like the workers you would see early in the season. Last week when i did the rounds of 40+ colonies, I encountered a grand total of 5 wasps scouting around hives. A lot of these hives were in or near orchards where there is a fair amount of fallen fruit which would draw in wasps. Walking around those orchards there was no sign of wasps feeding on the windfalls.
I have only seen a single wasp nest this year and that was discovered by a householder digging up plants in mid August and it was much smaller than any I have seen in the past.

This is a very useful observation but I interpret it differently. Chris has succinctly explained the difference in sizes of wasps (excellent link by the way Chris - so thanks for that!) being down to different species. The fact that there are few wasps around your hives at the moment and none around the windfalls is easy to explain.

As far as we can see wasp nest development is running about 6 to 8 weeks late this year. Wasp nests usually mature around the beginning of August so given the delayed development, they are expected to mature around the beginning of October. What does this mean? Well once a wasp nest matures (i.e. after it releases its new queens) the dietary behaviour of the foragers changes from hunting other insects to feeding on sweet liquids. So presently, foraging wasps are away hunting other insects and won't be bothering your hives or your windfalls. This is also born out by the fact that the nest you saw was so small, i.e. the size you would normall see around June time (6 - 8 weeks behind).

Regional variations in weather will result in differences in timing (hence JB's unfortunate experience) but interestingly, proactive pesties also have an impact. We know that in areas where pest controllers are actively eradicating nests there is frequently a rebound nuisance wasp problem. Typically we see this around theme parks and zoos and it does sound strange but it's true that if wasp nests are treated before they mature and at the wrong time of day it only serves to create more nuisance wasps and increases risk to human health and bee hives!

This is definitely not an area for Occam's Razor .

 

[Chris Luck]

Out of interest I spent some time yesterday watching wasps at one of my apiaries trying to enter the hives. This is a site with large numbers of wasps that had recently overcome a colony where the Queen had failed to mate successfully in early June BUT the remaining strong purposeful colonies are having none of it and as a wasp enters it is immediately thrown out within seconds.

It does make more work for the bees but this is how it should be, no rewards for failure in the natural world.

I'll get some photos later of a hornet nest in the middle of my home apiary, hives are as close as 30 metres.

Chris

 

[oliver90owner]

After all, a bee dies when it stings so numbers matter.

Just not true. Where did you get that from?

 

[Chris Luck]

As promised, Hornet nest in my home apiary in a hollow tree - starlings finished with it for now but they will clear it out in the spring.

Awwww, sweet.

Chris

 

[Headnavigator]

I've also had a weakish hive badly robbed (super still on and mostly sealed) but stores in brood box all gone in a matter of a few days. Q gone too and four emergency cells present. The wasps certainly know how to target a 'loser' hive. Have combined with stronger colony but aware that stores are pretty low there too, and I have not taken off any honey this year. I had taken the precaution of reducing entrances a couple of weeks ago, it doesn't seem to have made a lot of difference. Both hives had long queenless periods in the so-called Summer and I guess have never really caught up.
Interesting to observe several examples of wasps appearing to be fighting each other on or by the hive. Elsewhere in the garden - at a distance from the apiary - I put out the usual bottle traps but they haven't caught a thing.

 

[Karol]

I've also had a weakish hive badly robbed (super still on and mostly sealed) but stores in brood box all gone in a matter of a few days. Q gone too and four emergency cells present. The wasps certainly know how to target a 'loser' hive. Have combined with stronger colony but aware that stores are pretty low there too, and I have not taken off any honey this year. I had taken the precaution of reducing entrances a couple of weeks ago, it doesn't seem to have made a lot of difference. Both hives had long queenless periods in the so-called Summer and I guess have never really caught up.
Interesting to observe several examples of wasps appearing to be fighting each other on or by the hive. Elsewhere in the garden - at a distance from the apiary - I put out the usual bottle traps but they haven't caught a thing.

Wasps will attack bee hives in two different ways depending on where they are in their life cycle. Wasps will take bees and in particular bee larvae as a source of protein to feed their own grubs. This happens prior to wasp nest maturation and is the worst type of attack because the wasps are then literally after the bees themselves. This is also the worst type of attack because there is very little that can be done and all traps are pretty useless save that one might try (out of desparation) baiting them with raw fish or raw chicken. (Not something that I would recommend).

The second type of attack is where the wasps come after honey and this happens after wasp nests have matured. This type of attack is easier to manage but still requires the right knowledge and skill.

There is a lot to be said for wasps helping to maintain natural bee fitness and I have posted on this subject on previous threads. The problem comes during periods of extremis when even healthy hives comes under sustained duress. Where I guess I differ (only slightly) with Chris is that I don't necessarily perceive size as a determinant of health. It is entirely possible to have a healthy hive even though it is small because of other factors (for example adverse weather). Size does however matter in resisting a prolonged attack from wasps.

 

[tkwinston4]

Deploying a high efficiency trap

What is a high efficiency trap then?

 

[user 6228]

A good aid to defence is a warm hive. This means more of the bees are ready and available for defence and that those bees will be closer to the entrance. Bees with higher body temperatures have been shown to be more assertive, I' dig out the research. The longer entrance tunnels that keep a nest warm can also assist in the defence.