Wasp robbing -- except they're not.

[ShinySideUp]

I spent some time in the apiary today watching for wasps robbing my hives and there are a lot of wasps around this year. One or two did make some attempts at getting in to the hives but nothing drastic however they were making quite a few attempts at taking bees and succeeding quite often, biting off the abdomen.

I would have thought that wasps desire for protein for their young would be largely tailed off by now but they are still taking bees; have I missed something and is there anything I can do? I am using Millets design for tunnel entrances but they aren't trying to get in, just taking bees on the alighting board.

NB Yes, they are wasps, not hornets.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I spent some time in the apiary today watching for wasps robbing my hives and there are a lot of wasps around this year. One or two did make some attempts at getting in to the hives but nothing drastic however they were making quite a few attempts at taking bees and succeeding quite often, biting off the abdomen.

I would have thought that wasps desire for protein for their young would be largely tailed off by now but they are still taking bees; have I missed something and is there anything I can do? I am using Millets design for tunnel entrances but they aren't trying to get in, just taking bees on the alighting board.

NB Yes, they are wasps, not hornets.

They rip off the bee's head to get at the honey in the abdomen

 

[Wingy]

Observed exactly the same with the garden hive over the last couple of days. Wasp trap is filling up nicely as well, as you said seems to be lots around at the moment

 

[ShinySideUp]

They rip off the bee's head to get at the honey in the abdomen

Little charmers aren't they?

 

[Karol]

This is one of those situations where having a high efficiency trap sitting in front in contact with the landing board will make a difference. A word of caution though, it's imperative that the trap is a high efficiency trap otherwise the hive will be placed at significant risk.

Interestingly, when wasps take bee abdomens for nectar, they don't communicate this back to the hive in the same way as they would a rich residual food source such as when they get to the comb so you don't get the same level of swarm feeding. That said, if they are taking bees it's not a good portent for the autumn when things tighten up carb wise so it might be wise to keep a closer eye on the hive as autumn draws in.

 

[Eyeman]

They rip off the bee's head to get at the honey in the abdomen

Do they carry the abdomen back to their nest or consume the nectar/honey insitu?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Do they carry the abdomen back to their nest or consume the nectar/honey insitu?

I’ve seen them fly to the top of an adjacent hive to eat it

 

[Eyeman]

The wasps I'm seeing this year are the 'small' wasps approx half the size of your standard jasper. All my hive entrances have been reduced for sometime which is the best defence against attack. I'm most worried about my last round of mini mating nucs which have a couple more weeks to go before I know if queens are mated.
Although this lot can come out in force when the need arises.

 

[Karol]

Do they carry the abdomen back to their nest or consume the nectar/honey insitu?

During the hunting phase when there's brood in the nest they'll take it back to the nest but the manipulation of the honeybee tends to be different, i.e. the wasps will pare off the wings, head and legs taking the thorax as well.

During the sweet feeding phase when there's no brood in the nest wasp behaviour is much more 'individualistic'. The basic premise to understand is that if the food source is rich and large enough that it can be fought for by wasps from competing nests then wasps will recruit their nest mates to protect the food source to have a better chance of consuming it. If the food source isn't rich or large enough then the individual wasp will happily consume that morsel on their own. A honeybee abdomen falls into the later category. Because the wasp isn't interested in taking protein back to the nest it's behaviour is focused on the nectar in the crop and being efficient insects this means that they don't waste time overpowering the honeybee they just surgically remove the abdomen for its nectar content.

The difference between the two techniques helps to identify whether the wasps are hunting or sweet feeding which then informs what management strategies to use.

It does by the way also mean that recruitment from the nest is not particularly 'speedy' because no one will be home whilst they're also out feeding. So once a feeding swarm of wasps is eradicated there should be quite a breathing space before any new onslaught develops.

 

[citrus]

around the hives on the grass ... the wasp seem to be hanging around the grass near the hives entrances and occasionally grappling with a singular bee

the wasps almost look a bit drunk ... (there is a nearby plum and apple tree)

both hives seem to not have a problem with them .... and the wasps seem to be interested but not being too much of a problem

 

[boywonder]

This is one of those situations where having a high efficiency trap sitting in front in contact with the landing board will make a difference...

Karol, having read your posts on the forum for the last 3 or 4 years or so,, and also therefore appreciating that your opinions (regarding our wasp friends) are highly valued on this forum, I am therefore not clear how carefully I need to tread ... but, here goes...

There has been much of (what I regard to be) pseudoscience put out there about wasps, and the benefit of 'high efficacy traps' - e.g. (or should I say i.e.) the Waspbane.

So, I have one (as well as other designs of wasp trap). Is it good ? Yes. Is is materially better than other traps ? IMHO, no. There are still wasps that escape, and, one wasp getting back to the nest and alerting other wasps of a carbohydrate source is one too many.

Apart from the fact that it is barely better than other traps, whats irks me most about the Waspbane is the 'subscription' business model on which the product is built. That is to say, you are expected to buy expensive replacement base/bait units each time you want to go-again, and the units have been designed (as best possible) to make these single-use. I'm not questioning the (business) ethics, but that is a very un-ecological and un-economical proposition for an end consumer.

Now... I have an immediate issue of my own... A nuc (not up to full strength) which had had a decent amount of wasp activity at the entrance over the last couple of weeks, but which seemed to be defending itself ...

Stupidly - really stupidly - and as I wanted to stimulate the bees to draw - I recently gave them a feed of thin syrup. So, the wasps went nuts, and started to overwhelm the bees.

High efficacy trap in the vicinity of the nuc entrance. Chocolate teacup.

For what it is worth (and accepting I may lose the nuc in any event), I took the feeder off, placed it 10 feet or so from the nuc, added a few drops of washing-up liquid to the syrup (to help break the surface tension), and let them 'ave it.

In under 48 hours, I have literally thousands of drowned/dead wasps, and all the ongoing visitors are only interested in this feeder. There is virtually no wasp activity at the nuc entrance, and I am therefore hopeful I have given the bees the respite they need.

I know my views / actions will not meet with universal approval, but I would be interested in comments from others who have had similar experiences / dilemmas.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

 

[Karol]

With all due respect boywonder I don't visit this forum to sell anything and therefore will not get drawn into the merits of a particular brand of trap vs other traps. My comments regarding high and low efficiency traps are generic comments and apply equally to all traps that fall into either category.

Critically high efficiency traps ( and by that I mean all high efficiency traps) require careful consideration and appraisal of their use. Placing them in the vicinity of an open rich overwhelming food source will only result in the high efficiency trap being ignored and that is consistent with wasp behaviour.

My recommendation would be to move your nuc well away from the feeder now that you have created swarm feeding conditions. The danger is that if access to the feeder is denied for example by just the sheer number of dead wasps preventing other wasps getting to the feed, or it drying out, your nuc will be exposed again and it would be a shame to lose it unnecessarily.

 

[Millet]

I spent some time in the apiary today watching for wasps robbing my hives and there are a lot of wasps around this year. One or two did make some attempts at getting in to the hives but nothing drastic however they were making quite a few attempts at taking bees and succeeding quite often, biting off the abdomen.

I would have thought that wasps desire for protein for their young would be largely tailed off by now but they are still taking bees; have I missed something and is there anything I can do? I am using Millets design for tunnel entrances but they aren't trying to get in, just taking bees on the alighting board.

NB Yes, they are wasps, not hornets.

They can not get in...you may have missed them trying to gain entry but they sharp give in after the bees chase them out a lot quicker than they went in..however all this depends on the strength of the colony... strong colonies are on under floor entrances.... slightly weaker colonies are on 100mm wide tunnels and any that are weaker again are on 50mm entrances..

 

[boywonder]

With all due respect boywonder I don't visit this forum to sell anything and therefore will not get drawn into the merits of a particular brand of trap vs other traps. My comments regarding high and low efficiency traps are generic comments and apply equally to all traps that fall into either category.

Critically high efficiency traps ( and by that I mean all high efficiency traps) require careful consideration and appraisal of their use. Placing them in the vicinity of an open rich overwhelming food source will only result in the high efficiency trap being ignored and that is consistent with wasp behaviour.

My recommendation would be to move your nuc well away from the feeder now that you have created swarm feeding conditions. The danger is that if access to the feeder is denied for example by just the sheer number of dead wasps preventing other wasps getting to the feed, or it drying out, your nuc will be exposed again and it would be a shame to lose it unnecessarily.

Thanks Karol... That sounds like good advice, and I was not wanting to sound disrespectful. I think (personally) any trap is a double-edged sword, and its use, placement etc. is a finely balanced decision. Cheers

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

 

[ShinySideUp]

I have purchased one of the said Waspbane traps (arriving tomorrow) and was interested to read the above comments. I have quite a large garden with many trees and as it is recommended that these traps are placed in trees if at all possible I should be ok with a choice of sites. I am a little confused as to the 'subscription-based business' you mention, boywonder, as the unit I am purchasing does not come with any wasp bait in it (although they sell one with that option) so presumably I can put in bait of my own devising which surely makes it quite economical after a while, and easy to use...or have I missed something in the online blurb?

 

[Beefriendly]

Be good if you could run it alongside a cheap home made bottle trap with the same "bait" and let us know how it compares.
No one else seems to have done any comparisons.
One like this...be very interesting to get an independent view.

 

[Dogged]

Be good if you could run it alongside a cheap home made bottle trap with the same "bait" and let us know how it compares.
No one else seems to have done any comparisons.
One like this...be very interesting to get an independent view.

Excellent suggestion... this would be the sort of evidence that might - might, mark you - stifle some of the more heated threads

 

[ShinySideUp]

Be good if you could run it alongside a cheap home made bottle trap with the same "bait" and let us know how it compares.
No one else seems to have done any comparisons.
One like this...be very interesting to get an independent view.

As a bit of a citizen scientist it's something I would love to do if I were not also a beekeeper, however I am very keen not to set up a target for wasps to head for, merely to persuade those that are already here to crawl in and die. I might try it [the experiment] next summer well away from the apiary and well before robbing season.

 

[Beefriendly]

As a bit of a citizen scientist it's something I would love to do if I were not also a beekeeper,.

But you are about to place a wasp trap near your bees anyway!!! Very puzzled why you wouldn't experiment...according to some the bottle traps are low efficiency so wont catch any wasps....
And an experiment done before "robbing season" won't tell us much.

 

[ShinySideUp]

But you are about to place a wasp trap near your bees anyway!!! Very puzzled why you wouldn't experiment...according to some the bottle traps are low efficiency so wont catch any wasps....
And an experiment done before "robbing season" won't tell us much.

No, I'm going to put the trap well down wind of the apiary so there is no danger of attraction to the bees.

Wasps are out and about before robbing season. If I can kill the buggers before they start looking for my bees then my bees will do better later on. I won't do it in spring however as ironically, the wasps are quite welcome for killing plant pests on my spring vegetables.

Low efficiency (or rather efficacy) wasp traps do catch and kill wasps, they just don't do it in such a manner that prevents swarm feeding. The idea of using high efficacy traps is that fewer (and preferably, no) wasps go back to the nest to inform others of the food location otherwise you attract them rather than deter them. I'd quite happily kill 20 wasps and have no more coming upwind towards my hives than to have the trap kill 500 of them and still they come -- big difference.