Wasp robbing -- except they're not.

Beekeeping & Apiculture Forum

Help Support Beekeeping & Apiculture Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
But you are about to place a wasp trap near your bees anyway!!! Very puzzled why you wouldn't experiment...according to some the bottle traps are low efficiency so wont catch any wasps....
<snip>.

That is a fundamental misunderstanding. Low efficiency traps will ALWAYS catch more wasps than high efficiency traps! For the record I have never said that low efficiency traps won't catch any wasps, quite the contrary.

I think perhaps what is required is a more detailed explanation of the terms used with reference to wasp traps. Before I do it's important to understand what the purpose of a wasp trap is. Contrary to the established orthodox view it is NOT to catch wasps. The purpose of a wasp trap is to remove wasps from a chosen (micro) environment to create a 'wasp free' zone. That is a subtle but important distinction.

Efficiency and effectiveness (or efficacy if you prefer) are not the same thing. You can have a high efficiency trap which is totally ineffective.

Efficiency is a measure of the proportion of wasps that enter a trap that are killed without escaping. A high efficiency trap will kill (virtually) all of the wasps that it catches without letting them escape. A low efficiency trap will kill a small proportion of the wasps that it catches allowing many to escape. The efficiency of a wasp trap is a function of its physical attributes and the ability of those attributes to permanently retain the wasps that are caught.

Effectiveness (or efficacy) is a measure of how good any given trap has been with regards to its intended purpose. In this case how good the trap has been at protecting bee hives from wasp attack. The effectiveness or efficacy of wasp traps is a function of how well they are used and invariably reflects the actions of the user and their ability to correctly deploy the trap in any given situation. So for example a beekeeper who only uses a high efficiency trap for static trapping will not be as effective as a beekeeper who tailors the use of their high efficiency wasp trap to suit the situation which will invariably require dynamic as well as static trapping (essentially the difference in dealing with scouting and swarm feeding wasps).

High efficiency wasp traps will catch and kill relatively few wasps by comparison with low efficiency wasp traps and this is entirely in keeping with wasp behaviour. High efficiency traps will only trap those wasps that come into their scent signature (whether that is randomly for example during static trapping or contrived through dynamic trapping). Because those wasps that are caught cannot escape they cannot communicate the location of the trap and therefore do not recruit more wasps to the trap so kill numbers remain low. By contrast, low efficiency traps not only catch the wasps that enter their scent signature, they also allow wasps to escape to return to their nests to recruit more wasps from outside of the trap's scent signature. This 'communicable' attraction entices vastly more numbers of wasps to the trap and because the low efficiency traps still kill a proportion of the wasps they catch, the number of wasps killed is high. Interestingly, it doesn't matter where you place a low efficiency wasp trap you will always get the same result.

The principle can be illustrated thus. Imagine that a low efficiency trap is only 10% efficient. This means that it kills 1 in 10 of the wasps it catches. Imagine also that each wasp that successfully feeds and escapes from the trap will recruit a further 9 wasps.

The first wasp that enters the trap is one of the unlucky 10% and is killed. (Death toll = 1 / Live wasps in vicinity of trap = 0). The next wasp that comes along will be one of the 90% that survive and escape. That wasp heads back to its nest and recruits 9 wasps meaning that there are 10 wasps at the trap. The trap kills 10% so 1 of the 10 will die leaving 9 to escape. (Death toll = 2 / Live wasps in vicinity of trap = 9). The nine wasps fly off to recruit a further 9 wasps each i.e 90 wasps at the trap. 10% are killed by the trap so 9 wasp die leaving 81 wasps to escape. (Death toll = 11 / Live wasps in vicinity of the trap = 81). The 81 wasps each then recruit 9 wasps giving a total of 810 wasps at the trap. The trap kills 10% so 81 wasps die leaving 729 wasp to escape (Death toll = 92 / Live wasps in vicinity of trap = 729).

Clearly these number are fictitious and in practice the efficiency will vary as will the recruitment rate. Nevertheless the 'model' helps to explain why low efficiency traps kill so many wasps but remain ineffective. By contrast in the same model the high efficiency trap will have killed only two wasps (compared to 92 in the low efficiency trap) but it will have been effective in that it would have a zero count for the number of wasps in its vicinity in the area it's designed to protect.

When we appreciate that wasps programme feed at a food source and ignore all other food sources until the original food source is fully consumed, and furthermore appreciate that wasps navigate to within millimeters of that food source it is entirely predictable that in a head to head study comparing a high efficiency trap placed immediately next to a low efficiency trap that the high efficiency trap will catch few if any wasps at all and the low efficiency trap will catch thousands by comparison. To the lay person this looks as though the high efficiency trap is useless but that's because of a lack of understanding of wasp behaviour and a lack of understanding of the effects of trap efficiency and the difference between physical attraction and communicable attraction between high and low efficiency traps.

This stuff can be pretty difficult to absorb so I'm more than happy to answer questions but please, can we restrict this to a generic discussion because the science applies generically to all high efficiency traps and all low efficiency traps regardless of their source.
 
Last edited:
Contrary to the established orthodox view it is NOT to catch wasps. The purpose of a wasp trap is to remove wasps from a chosen (micro) environment to create a 'wasp free' zone. That is a subtle but important distinction.
Removing wasps by catching them in traps, but not catching them.
 
An oxymoron purposely written to try to break the fixation on the numbers of wasps killed as being the determinant as to how good a trap is. It's about features vs benefits. A feature of low efficiency traps is that they catch massive numbers of wasps. That brings no benefit if the trap actually increases the number of wasps in the area you are trying to protect. A feature of high efficiency traps is they catch far fewer wasps. The benefit is that they remove the background population of wasps in the area you want to protect so actually reduce risk and actually achieve what it is that one is trying to do, i.e. effectively protect the hive.

The problem is that because high efficiency traps catch few wasps and are limited to their scent signature, they have to be used cleverly to achieve the desired result. Basically, if a high efficiency trap doesn't deliver then it's not being used properly and it's not the fault of the trap.

All I'm trying to do is help beekeepers understand how to better protect their hives which is a challenge because my intentions are persistently questionned. Fact is I don't care what the source of a trap is. I care that beekeepers don't lose their hives through their ignorance or prejudice and more importantly that they don't lose their lives or suffer harm themselves.
 
Last edited:
No kind of trap is going to turn an apiary into a wasp free micro zone.

Into a virtually wasp free micro zone then I beg to differ that it should. (And for the sake of clarity we are talking type of trap rather than one single trap on its own.) But that is only possible as a part of integrated wasp management.

Of course wasps will randomly enter into the 'micro' zone hence the careful use of the term virtually. But those wasps should be effectively dealt with so that they are transient and there is no appreciable background population of wasps in the zone.
 
Into a virtually wasp free micro zone then I beg to differ that it should.

Okay, so in an apiary of 50 to 70 hives and a plume of honey aroma which can be detected 50 meters down wind by a human (much further I suspect by wasps) and hundreds of wasp nests per square mile...question is...how many high efficiency wasp traps to make the apiary a virtually wasp free micro zone.
 
My concern is, with all these wasps being killed, with the tens of thousands of tons they allegedly eat being left alone to multiply, won't we end up waist deep in greenfly?
 
My concern is, with all these wasps being killed, with the tens of thousands of tons they allegedly eat being left alone to multiply, won't we end up waist deep in greenfly?

mmmm more honey dew....am off to drink 50 litres of coke
 
Okay, so in an apiary of 50 to 70 hives and a plume of honey aroma which can be detected 50 meters down wind by a human (much further I suspect by wasps) and hundreds of wasp nests per square mile...question is...how many high efficiency wasp traps to make the apiary a virtually wasp free micro zone.

Depends on the orientation of the apiary and wind direction. If you have seventy hives in one line and the prevailing wind traverses across them you'll get 70 plumes. If the wind traverses longitudinally you'll only have one extended plume so that the leading hive takes the brunt of the onslaught. So assuming that all other extraneous plumes have been managed, the answer lies somewhere between one and 70 traps.

Don't forget that wasps can only fly circa 50 minutes before they exhaust their power pack and if they can't successfully feed at the apiary they'll go looking elsewhere where if they find a rich source they will programme swarm feed. So, so long as the scouts are effectively dealt with the other wasps should be pre-occupied elsewhere and leave the apiary alone.
 
Depends on the orientation of the apiary and wind direction.

The wind blows in every direction one time or another, one day from another, so strong plume of nectar aroma from the hives going in every direction, hives on random stands... want it to be a virtually wasp free micro area.
 
The wind blows in every direction one time or another, one day from another, so strong plume of nectar aroma from the hives going in every direction, hives on random stands... want it to be a virtually wasp free micro area.

The prevailing wind however tends to be fairly consistent and slowly changes to reflect the seasons. Daily fluctuations by and large get ironed out in so far as it takes time for wasps to respond to changes in plume signatures because they will be programme feeding elsewhere and they navigate to those locations by mental map which is not influenced by changes in wind direction.
 
The prevailing wind however tends to be fairly consistent and slowly changes to reflect the seasons. Daily fluctuations by and large get ironed out in so far as it takes time for wasps to respond to changes in plume signatures because they will be programme feeding elsewhere and they navigate to those locations by mental map which is not influenced by changes in wind direction.

Okay, so only any good, and that is not likely, if the wind/breeze stays in the same direction, it doesn't here, so not much use.

The plume is nectar, every day, all day.
 
Last edited:
Okay, so only any good, and that is not likely, if the wind/breeze stays in the same direction, it doesn't here, so not much use.

The plume is nectar, every day, all day.

Topography plays a big part so hives embedded in a valley will experience more consistent prevailing wind direction than those atop an open moor. That's not to say a virtually wasp free micro zone can't be achieved. It means that the strategy has to be adapted with more focus at the hive rather than removed from the hive.

Commercial beekeeping like any business I guess is a balance between effort and reward and I guess pricing in risk is less costly because with economies of scale the risk can be priced over a larger number of hives.
 
Been conducting experiments...might post photos in a few days...but boy open traps are winning by a mile. Sod anything with small holes.
 
Thank you Karol, this is really interesting and useful.

My pleasure.

One of the other threads mentions wasps as a pain when cleaning after extracting honey. There's a relatively simply way to prevent such a problem. It requires a feeder and a high efficiency trap. Once you know when you plan to extract or more accurately, when you know you're going to hose down aftrrwards, set a feeder three days beforehand in the exact location where you're going to hose down. Make sure there are no other food sources in the area. The method relies on setting up a single programmed swarm feeding event in one location and one location only. On the morning of the hosing down carefully remove the feeder and place a 'primed' high efficiency trap in the exact same location. This is a powerful form of interruption trapping where the programmed swarm feeding of the wasps is interrupted and they are mobilised to go into the trap. Done correctly you will catch the whole swarm in about 50 minutes and thereafter you will be wasp free for a few hours if not a couple of days. This technique only works on the precise location of where the swarm is feeding which is why it is imperative not to have any other food sources near by.
 
Been conducting experiments...might post photos in a few days...but boy open traps are winning by a mile. Sod anything with small holes.

Okay Prof. If you're going to conduct some experiments then apply some scientific rigour and test per intended use. High efficiency traps are placed at the entrance to the hive. So why don't you take two of your hives of comparable strength and design, with no modification to the entrances given your previous post that strong hives don't need reduced entrances, and place your traps at the hive entrance touching the landing board. Run the trial for seven days only don't take pictures, take video for 30 minutes each day at peak activity for each hive. Post your videos to youtube so we can all see your results.
 
Why on earth would I want to put wasp traps in my apiary?
My hives aren't bothered by wasps...my G&T spot is....
Nicely wasp free now.. Tuesday
 

Latest posts

Back
Top