Was i right?

[Jonnyl]

Hello all. 2-3 weeks ago I posed a question as I was anxious about a booming hive. Finally had the chance to get into it today. A short window. The hive I was concerned about (think they're Italian as quite yellow as is the queen) had built brace comb on the QE I used to lay the fondant on, lots of it. 14x12 box, 7 frames of BIAS, mostly capped and one frame spare which she was laying in fight then. Rest of the frames were stores. Packed. Just made it. All good. My 1st thought was super but as it's to hovering around 10d here for the next 10 days and sub zero at nights I doubted the wisdom of this. Put the CB on and when into my other hive next to it. This hive are black bees, much quieter, 3-4 frames of brood, no sign of the queen but eggs visible. The fondant block only half eaten, about 6kg left which I took away. So not too bad. I then decided to take two frames of brood from the Italians and put them in the black hive. Gave them a shoogle and put frames and nurse bees directly in. Then two empty frames from the blacks into the italian. Scored the frames of scores on both hives and closed them back up. Made certain the empty frames had no bees and the brood frames did NOT have the queen on them. Waited ten minutes or so and watched going about there business and all looked well. Was this right? Theres now no fondant on either, 2-3 frames of stores in each. I wont have a chance to get back in to inspect for a wee while. Any thoughts or constructive criticism very welcome. Thanks to you all for your time and advice.

 

[Erichalfbee]

You might have got away with it. You might have lost some bees, maybe your black queen. I guess you’ll find out next time you look in
Let us know

 

[Jonnyl]

You might have got away with it. You might have lost some bees, maybe your black queen. I guess you’ll find out next time you look in
Let us know

Is there anything that makes you think she's gone? There was eggs and capped brood in the black hive so I'm hopeful she is there but didnt want to spend too much time looking after I saw brood. What did strike me though was plenty drone brood in both hives and even a few drones ambling around the italian one. Very early i thought?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Is there anything that makes you think she's gone?

No. I’m just uncomfortable putting bees on frames into a foreign hive.
Some people do it.

 

[Jonnyl]

No. I’m just uncomfortable putting bees on frames into a foreign hive.
Some people do it.

Ah I see. Yes not my first preference either but I had the italian queen well coralled and checked again she was in her own box after. I found nurse bees are accepted without issue in the past and waited to see if anything 'wild' happened when I did it with each of the donor frames, all seemed well and when I closed up I watched the front for a good wee while after and it looked BAU.

 

[GuyNir]

Normally if you transfer a frame with nurse bees on it, you‘re safer.
If I’m about to transfer a frame with bees on it, I’ll leave it outside the donor hive for a couple minutes, hoping the ones left on it are mostly nurse bees.
Works for me.

 

[Jonnyl]

Normally if you transfer a frame with nurse bees on it, you‘re safer.
If I’m about to transfer a frame with bees on it, I’ll leave it outside the donor hive for a couple minutes, hoping the ones left on it are mostly nurse bees.
Works for me.

Yes I've done it before but always a little gingerly. I do shoogle the frame first to dislodge any field bees but of course you cant be totally sure. I had to lessen that hive as it was rammed and it's too early to split and too cold in scotland. Minus 3 tonight. They were two standard frames and not 14x12s as I had a couple left in the hives from the nuc I got them from last year. Now two 14x12s into the italian which I hope will be plenty space for her in the next few days.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Putting a whole two frames of brood into a colony slowly building up currently on only 3-4 frames of brood is a big ask of the receiving colony in my view.
Especially with colder weather forecast, be prepared for some chilled brood.

 

[Jonnyl]

Putting a whole two frames of brood into a colony slowly building up currently on only 3-4 frames of brood is a big ask of the receiving colony in my view.
Especially with colder weather forecast, be prepared for some chilled brood.

Mmmmm. That was a concern JBM which is why I chose the two standard frames with a healthy covering of nurses. It's not easy this bee thing. Taking the fondant away too made me think but there is 3 full frames left. Hope it's enough but they do fly atm and there's plenty blooms around. In future what would be the alpha option? Thank you.

 

[Swarm]

In future what would be the alpha option? Thank you.

Leave them be.

 

[Jonnyl]

Leave them be.

Thanks. I would have liked to but as you can see from my last snap that wasn't really an option. It was rammed and no more space was available for the queen. Even the brace comb had larva in it. The next 10 days or so (at least) are cold here so i thought it was the only feasible window and option I had. That being said was leaving them alone a viable course of action?

 

[Boston Bees]

Thanks. I would have liked to but as you can see from my last snap that wasn't really an option.

It was an option. There was a 10 day cold snap coming up which will slow down nectar gathering significantly. The queen already has, from what you say, 8 or so frames of 14x12 to lay in, which is a huge area (55-60,000 brood cells maybe?) - even if she lays 2,000 eggs per day that is more than she needs given that worker brood hatches after 21 days.

If you were seriously worried about them not having anywhere to put nectar (and I wouldn't have been, in a 14x12) then you could have either:

a) taken a frame of stores out and given them a frame of foundation to build wax on instead (thus allowing them somewhere to vent their wax building needs)
b) temporarily added a super of foundation under the brood box (ditto)

You'll probably be OK with what you have done though - it's just a bit risky for my liking (for the black queen, and the survival prospects of the brood in those frames).

IMHO

 

[Jonnyl]

It was an option. There was a 10 day cold snap coming up which will slow down nectar gathering significantly. The queen already has, from what you say, 8 or so frames of 14x12 to lay in, which is a huge area (55-60,000 brood cells maybe?) - even if she lays 2,000 eggs per day that is more than she needs given that worker brood hatches after 21 days.

If you were seriously worried about them not having anywhere to put nectar (and I wouldn't have been, in a 14x12) then you could have either:

a) taken a frame of stores out and given them a frame of foundation to build wax on instead (thus allowing them somewhere to vent their wax building needs)
b) temporarily added a super of foundation under the brood box (ditto)

You'll probably be OK with what you have done though - it's just a bit risky for my liking (for the black queen, and the survival prospects of the brood in those frames).

IMHO

A super UNDER the BB? That's what I didnt consider. I'd dismissed adding to the surface area thinking it would be too much but of course the heat rises. Never did that enter my head. Still a rookie. But I'm here to learn and thanks to you all I am. Cheers.

 

[Parsonage Bees]

No experience of differing bee strains but when swapping frames between hives I have sprayed them lightly with a weak syrup. The theory being that by the time they've cleaned each other they will get along. Yes? No? (Probably not when the weather is cool). #tin hat at the ready#