Warm way/cold way…different brood nest?

[Do224]

I went into my bees today to check stores…first question is was I right to do this at this time of year or should I have just hefted (I’m still a newbie so no real experience of judging a hive’s weight)?

I decided to have my frames warm way in my hives and over the past few weeks the brood nest seems to have migrated right over to the first five frames closest to the entrance…then stores in the rest. Is this normal? Whenever I’ve looked in a hive that has frames arranged cold way the brood nest has always been in the middle with stores either side…

 

[Erichalfbee]

warm way in my hives and over the past few weeks the brood nest seems to have migrated right over to the first five frames closest to the entrance…

Yes perfectly normal. Brood in front of stores

 

[oxnatbees]

Well observed. Bees put brood nearest entrance, that's where most traffic usually goes, and honey further away. It's presumably partly an efficiency thing, but it also means there are more guards (populated comb) near the entrance. Sometimes they move the nest if you move combs.

 

[blackcloud]

Doesn't make much difference.
Ask a langstroth owner

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Whenever I’ve looked in a hive that has frames arranged cold way the brood nest has always been in the middle with stores either side…

That's probably because you've looked in the summer when they are packed with brood and the majority of the stores are in the supers with just a little 'ready use' stores around the edges of the brood for the convenience of the nurse bees - all my hives are 'cold' way and they are all configured with the stores towards the back of the hive and brood nearest the entrance at this time of year.

 

[Do224]

I combined a small nuc with a queenless hive last week and put the two frames of brood into the middle of the hive…presumably the bees will re-work this over the next few weeks and move the nest to where they want it

 

[Redcap]

all my hives are 'cold' way

Would be interested to understand why all your hives are configured the 'cold' way. Is there much of an advantage over the 'warm' way?

 

[madasafish]

Doesn't make much difference.
Ask a langstroth owner

No difference at all.
I have langs plus a few National nucs and inspect Nationals weekly elsewhere and there is no discernable difference .

 

[Do224]

Would be interested to understand why all your hives are configured the 'cold' way. Is there much of an advantage over the 'warm' way?

Mostly because they are quite close together which makes inspecting from the side a little tight.

 

[Do224]

I watched a talk about autumn feeding the other day…it was an online one by a well known beekeeper. He suggested that you shouldn’t swap from cold way to warm way or vice versa at this time of year because the stores would end up ‘in the wrong place’

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I watched a talk about autumn feeding the other day…it was an online one by a well known beekeeper. He suggested that you shouldn’t swap from cold way to warm way or vice versa at this time of year because the stores would end up ‘in the wrong place’

he is right - only an imbecile would believe it makes a difference anyway. Warm way/cold way has got nothing to do with the seasons or the temperature. You should keep your configuration the same throughout the year, whether you use warm or cold way.

Would be interested to understand why all your hives are configured the 'cold' way. Is there much of an advantage over the 'warm' way?

They're configured cold way because it suits me better - all my hives are placed in pairs with a two foot gap between the stands.
As for 'advantage' I doubt there is one although I have observed that in 'warm way' configurations, often the frame nearest the entrance get's totally wasted, even in the summer.

 

[blackcloud]

An omf ( even with a tray in) will conspire with the entrance to provide a nice little ventilation flow so you will get 'coldway' with your frames warmway.
Mine have always been coldway and I can't remember ever considering why I chose that way on starting out
I rarely have spring loss (this year none at all) so I think a healthy colony will prevail whatever our tinkering does.

 

[Do224]

An omf ( even with a tray in) will conspire with the entrance to provide a nice little ventilation flow so you will get 'coldway' with your frames warmway.
Mine have always been coldway and I can't remember ever considering why I chose that way on starting out
I rarely have spring loss (this year none at all) so I think a healthy colony will prevail whatever our tinkering does.

So warm way/cold way were originally named for their ability, or lack of, to keep the hive warm?

I assumed it was just one of those occasions where the names had no literal meaning. Perhaps back when everyone used solid floors warm way created a warmer hive over winter…?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

So warm way/cold way were originally named for their ability, or lack of, to keep the hive warm?

I assumed it was just one of those occasions where the names had no literal meaning. Perhaps back when everyone used solid floors warm way created a warmer hive over winter…?

you're half way right - the term was coined when solid floors was the norm, but they probably never checked to see if the frame configurations made any difference, just, as with a lot of beekeeping myths it just became the accepted 'knowledge'

 

[JamezF]

The way it was explained to me was that "warm way" meant the frame nearest the hive entrance tended to block draughts (presumably caused by the matchsticks under the crownboard) allowing the rest of the hive to stay warm more easily, whereas "cold way" presented all the gaps between the frames to the incoming draught, chilling everything. Given that the people who taught me were mostly using sloping wooden floors that allowed draughts to circulate wherever they might I honestly doubt it made a shred of difference.

Personally I prefer to work my hives from the side opposite the entrance, so they're all "warm way". Where I have more than one hive on a stand it also makes it easy to use the next hive along as a "shelf" for tools etc. It's unexpected and interesting that JBM prefers "cold way", but he presumably has found himself a comfortable way of working from the side of the hives that suits him. Either way I doubt the bees are that aware of the difference.

James

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

unexpected and interesting that JBM prefers "cold way", but he presumably has found himself a comfortable way of working from the side of the hives that suits him. Either way I doubt the bees are that aware of the difference.

as I said, because of the fact I have my hives in pairs I find it easier to work from the side, also, when I was teaching I had the hive on single stands which meant I could stand on one side with the frames square on and the two other sides were free for the pupils to stand closely and watch. I suppose working with Langstroths on a commercial outfit swayed me a bit as well)