wanted - £25k to breed black bees

[pargyle]

So this only applies to Buckfast, yes? as you can easily guarantee that an Italian, Carniolan, AMM ect, ect, will find only others of there own kind to mate with so ensuring no problems, or anything other than Buckfast cross breeding won't cause any problems,....yes?.....is this what your saying.

No ....

 

[WoodenBeam]

Strange that these primordial black bees are housed in polyhives! Maybe they're temperature delicate, even in South Devon?

 

[For want of a better word]

Originally Posted by Amari View Post
Strange that these primordial black bees are housed in polyhives! Maybe they're temperature delicate, even in South Devon?

Polly hives are most " Fit for purpose "
.... you can any type of honeybee in them quite successfully!


Yeghes da

 

[Madge]

Strange that these primordial black bees are housed in polyhives! Maybe they're temperature delicate, even in South Devon?

They're bees, and they're no more 'primordial' than any of the other European honey bee races.

 

[madasafish]

I think we should regress cattle back to aurochs...based on the logic of some black beebreeders..

http://tinyurl.com/q5uz9eg

 

[Gilberdyke John]

I think we should regress cattle back to aurochs...based on the logic of some black beebreeders..

http://tinyurl.com/q5uz9eg

And horses back to Eohippus? Might be difficult to ride though

 

[pargyle]

I'm not part of the 'black bee taliban' as JBM terms them ... but ... I can see the benefit of having bees that are locally acclimatised - preferably over a long period of time. In Northern Europe AMM was, obviously, the local bee species for millennia and were survivors in the UK until Acarine had such a dramatic effect on them.

I do understand that there were bee imports by people before that who were seeking to 'improve' the performance and characteristics of the local black bees but I can't see that anyone who is trying to restore a predominance of AMM within a local area is doing anything detrimental. It's not something that could be accomplished easily or cost effectively on a national basis but I can well see the desirability of creating pockets where the black bee is the predominant species.

Again, within this element of beekeeping there appear to be extremists who only see their own polarised views as the only option. I'd be happy that more 'black bees' are made available within the gene pool to compliment the wide variety of other bees we have in the UK. Realistically, the UK is now such a cosmopolitan environment, in terms of its bee stocks, there is little chance of achieving much more than this.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Realistically, the UK is now such a cosmopolitan environment, in terms of its bee stocks, there is little chance of achieving much more than this.

Realistically the UK is a gold mine of genetic diversity, which we are lucky to have.

 

[pargyle]

Realistically the UK is a gold mine of genetic diversity, which we are lucky to have.

Totally agree in many respects .... but ... there are a lot of species that have arrived and are due to arrive that we could well do without (not bees of course).

When you look at what is happening in the US (and reinforced by Mike Palmer the other night) the effect of introducing inappropriate strains of bees into a climate/condtions that they are not used to usually results in failure. Worse, the introduction of their genes into the local populace just dilutes the local bee population with undesirable characteristics.

 

[Hivemaker.]

When you look at what is happening in the US

They have a narrow gene pool in many places, unlike us.

 

[pargyle]

They have a narrow gene pool in many places, unlike us.

Yes ... that came about largely because of their propensity for replacing colonies on an annual basis with package bees from Florida and their extraordinary migratory beekeeping practices. But ... the answer still lies in local bees doing what they do best .. if only they had the sense to see it. Perhaps the thousands of Flow Hives that will be heading for the states later this year will restore a balance ?

 

[Hivemaker.]

Yes ... that came about largely because of their propensity for replacing colonies on an annual basis with package bees from Florida

And the lack of imports, and too few queen producers providing thousands of queens from too few lines.

This of course applies equally to bees within separate sub species as well as mixing them.

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showpost.php?p=216464&postcount=1

http://phys.org/news/2012-10-genetic-remix-key-evolution-bee.html

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

When you look at what is happening in the US

They have a narrow gene pool in many places, unlike us.

And not just within bees - quite a bit like us!

I think we should regress cattle back to aurochs...based on the logic of some black beebreeders..

http://tinyurl.com/q5uz9eg

Didn't Hitler try to do just that? (disturbing parallels to the subject being discussed here )

Personally I think a dozen or so sabre toothed tigers would fit well in Hyde park - they look so cute and fluffeee!

 

[pargyle]

And the lack of imports, and too few queen producers providing thousands of queens from too few lines.

This of course applies equally to bees within separate sub species as well as mixing them.

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showpost.php?p=216464&postcount=1

http://phys.org/news/2012-10-genetic-remix-key-evolution-bee.html

Yes. The point about too few producers and the continual reduction in quality of the queens being supplied came across strongly in Mike's talk ..

Wow ... thanks for those links I hadn't seen them - very interesting. So ...a diverse gene pool is good for bees - which is what most of us are saying I think. Albeit with a place for some AMM genes I would hope ?

 

[Hivemaker.]

Albeit with a place for some AMM genes I would hope ?

Of course...all of the various sub species are important.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

So ...a diverse gene pool is good for bees - which is what most of us are saying I think. Albeit with a place for some AMM genes I would hope ?

Which is why I'm considering buoying in a few purebred (albeit open mated) Colonsay queens this year - although probably the usual suspects will be up in arms because their mother was imported from the wrong side of the island!

 

[REDWOOD]

Should we not evolution carry it's course. If the British black be is so good why is it not thriving, I was talking to some Russian beekeepers and they are glad to see the back of their black bees due to nosema, how right or wrong this is I don't know

 

[pargyle]

Which is why I'm considering buoying in a few purebred (albeit open mated) Colonsay queens this year - although probably the usual suspects will be up in arms because their mother was imported from the wrong side of the island!

We should all be open minded - there is much to be said for diversity of all types - of thought as well as deed.

 

[madasafish]

And not just within bees - quite a bit like us!



Didn't Hitler try to do just that? (disturbing parallels to the subject being discussed here )

Personally I think a dozen or so sabre toothed tigers would fit well in Hyde park - they look so cute and fluffeee!

Yes: there was a TV program on it recently.

I tried not to mention it as Godwin's Law would be - correctly -invoked...

 

[mbc]

I think we should regress cattle back to aurochs...based on the logic of some black beebreeders..

http://tinyurl.com/q5uz9eg

If we still had extant aurochs but they were endangered, would you be supportive of their preservation?