Volume of soapy water necessary to terminate a colony?

[Spikedog]

Rather involved story of tree falling, road side cover lost and an ongoing problem of bees following, meeting, and stinging. I will if bees not a threat to others attempt a requeen (my usual solution). However, this new context allows it may be necessary to terminate the unit. I am aware of the options of petrol or soapy water. So, question: what quantity of water and concentration of washing up liquid is required to do the job on a x 2 BB unit? ... Awful question I know but if needs must…

 

[blackcloud]

Two builders buckets with 10pc fairy liquid Pour slowly and find every pocket, finish the job in one hit to reduce suffering.
Never a nice thing to have to do

 

[Ian123]

Rather involved story of tree falling, road side cover lost and an ongoing problem of bees following, meeting, and stinging. I will if bees not a threat to others attempt a requeen (my usual solution). However, this new context allows it may be necessary to terminate the unit. I am aware of the options of petrol or soapy water. So, question: what quantity of water and concentration of washing up liquid is required to do the job on a x 2 BB unit? ... Awful question I know but if needs must…

Petrol is quicker and faster. You’ll loose the frames it comes in contact with but that’s it.

 

[ericbeaumont]

Petrol is quicker and faster. You’ll loose the frames it comes in contact with but that’s it.

Petrol will melt poly, so transfer to wood first.

Isopropyl alcohol has no effect on poly, is v effective at killing, plus it's antibacterial and leaves no trace. You'll need about a litre, but it is more expensive than petrol.

 

[pargyle]

Rather than killing them - can't you find somewhere else to move them to where they won't be a nuisance and set about re-queening them ? You could also try splitting the colony in two - you sometimes find that smaller colonies (particularly if you give them something to do like rearing a new queen or giving them some foundation to draw out) lose some of their defensive nature. Turn the entrances round to face away from the direction that the road is in. Put up net screen to get them up in the air in the direction they generally fly - if they are above head height less chance of them interacting with people.

Euthanasia really should be the very last resort ....

 

[Nannysbees]

Try to requeen the alternative is horrible

 

[Sutty]

Or move away 1st
But at least you are asking so the job gets done humanely if needed!

 

[ericbeaumont]

ongoing problem of bees following, meeting, and stinging

Seal them in and take them to a faraway place where you can split them as Pargyle suggested, but perhaps into several parts.

 

[blackcloud]

I've found soapy water to be instant. I've also had petrol take minutes to achieve the same effect.
Plus I have confidence in being able to reuse the all kit and still take honey.
Less environmental damage too.
As Pargyle is this the last resort?
Off the queen and throw in a laying swarm in the interim- you'll have the behaviour for a couple of months but then a working platform.
I've used a snelgrove board to strip back a fizzy colony and it does help finding the queen

 

[jeff33]

Not that I intend to terminate any colony but I was wondering if burning sulphur also work for this or if it's too long to take effect?

 

[enrico]

Petrol will melt poly, so transfer to wood first.

Isopropyl alcohol has no effect on poly, is v effective at killing, plus it's antibacterial and leaves no trace. You'll need about a litre, but it is more expensive than petrol.

I agree. Cheaper to buy a litre off ebay. I always have a bottle spare for the just in case scenario.

 

[pargyle]

Not that I intend to terminate any colony but I was wondering if burning sulphur also work for this or if it's too long to take effect?

It's not something I've ever come across in the UK but, apparently, it's the most widely used method in Italy for killing colonies. If I was doing it (and I hope I never have to) I think I would be using at least 30gm of sulphur and make sure the hive is really well sealed up. SO2 is heavier than air so placing the sulphur burner in an empty eke or brood box above the frames and ensuring the entrance and any mesh floors are sealed up would be the quickest method.

I hate even talking about killing bees but it would appear that burning sulphur does appear to be a quick and effective method with the advantage that it does not contaminate the frames - and costs about £1.00 - a lot cheaper than petrol or isopropyl alcohol.

https://www.izsvenezie.com/euthanasia-beekeeping-question-animal-welfare/

 

[ericbeaumont]

petrol take minutes

In the last couple of years I've been involved in termination with petrol (for others) and found that colonies have not always died instantly, but that significant number of bees are crawling the next day .

Two factors may reduce the speed & efficiency of the kill: bees packed tight in boxes reduce fume spread, or modern petrol has lost some of its efficacy.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Rather involved story of tree falling, road side cover lost and an ongoing problem of bees following, meeting, and stinging. I will if bees not a threat to others attempt a requeen (my usual solution). However, this new context allows it may be necessary to terminate the unit. I am aware of the options of petrol or soapy water. So, question: what quantity of water and concentration of washing up liquid is required to do the job on a x 2 BB unit? ... Awful question I know but if needs must…

Are you saying the bees are still in the fallen tree and your mention of a 2BB unit is a measure of the sort of numbers you are dealing with or has the colony already been rehoused? If someone has rehoused them it must have been a devil of a job.

 

[pargyle]

Are you saying the bees are still in the fallen tree and your mention of a 2BB unit is a measure of the sort of numbers you are dealing with or has the colony already been rehoused? If someone has rehoused them it must have been a devil of a job.

Read the OP again ... he has a colony in a double BB that has now been exposed to be able to interfere with people as a tree has fallen down removing the roadside obstruction to their flight path. It's not the clearest post to be honest ...

 

[North End Bees]

burning sulphur does appear to be a quick and effective method with the advantage that it does not contaminate the frames

Presumably honey in any supers can be taken off/fed to other colonies after sulphuring?

I'm just wondering as olden day skeppists used sulphur when they killed off the bees at the end of the year and took the harvest. (Not saying all skeppists did this!)

 

[Ian123]

Presumably honey in any supers can be taken off/fed to other colonies after sulphuring?

I'm just wondering as olden day skeppists used sulphur when they killed off the bees at the end of the year and took the harvest. (Not saying all skeppists did this!)

I’m pretty sure it’s what the skep beeks used. They used to have a little pit to position them over.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Read the OP again ... he has a colony in a double BB that has now been exposed to be able to interfere with people as a tree has fallen down removing the roadside obstruction to their flight path. It's not the clearest post to be honest ...

As you say - not the clearest post. It would have perhaps be worth exploring creating a screen to close off the gap between the bees and the road as an initial, possibly temporary fix then requeen. Garden netting, a section of lap fencing, stack some straw bales, lots of options.

 

[Spikedog]

Many thanks for replies/advice. To alleviate some concerns arising, it is not my intention to wantonly destroy a colony of bees. In my years as a Beek it has never been necessary. I have had some beasties in the past and it is practice to requeen and yes betimes by moving a distance and splitting etc. Similar efforts will be made for this unt, including some of the suggestions made here unless in practice it becomes a risk to family and or others. Apologies if there was a lack of clarity on my part. I simply required to know water quantity and soap concentration should that treatment be called for… Blackcloud reply noted. Euthanasia will be very much the last resort. I note with interest comments re: Isopropyl and Sulphur. Thanks for comments and suggestions.

 

[Kaz]

Many thanks for replies/advice. To alleviate some concerns arising, it is not my intention to wantonly destroy a colony of bees. In my years as a Beek it has never been necessary. I have had some beasties in the past and it is practice to requeen and yes betimes by moving a distance and splitting etc. Similar efforts will be made for this unt, including some of the suggestions made here unless in practice it becomes a risk to family and or others. Apologies if there was a lack of clarity on my part. I simply required to know water quantity and soap concentration should that treatment be called for… Blackcloud reply noted. Euthanasia will be very much the last resort. I note with interest comments re: Isopropyl and Sulphur. Thanks for comments and suggestions.

Another option, if you get to the point where you feel euthanasia is the only option, is to put out an appeal to your local branch, one of our members regularly "rescues" condemned colonies, takes them away to a remote location where they aren't a threat to anyone (other than him!) and requeens them. That might be an option rather than destroying?