Volume of bees for a sugar roll

[Xander]

Good morning, what volume of bees should I use for a sugar roll and at what count of mites should I then treat the hive?

 

[Murox]

The varroa easy check people suggest you use 300 bees to obtain the results.
Obtain your infestation percentage by dividing the number of varroa found by 3. If you find 5 varroa mites with 300 bees, you have an infestation percentage of 1.66%.

Personally I no longer test every time. I make the assumption that as I have had varroa before they will be present. My hives all get treated nowish (autumn), mid winter and some time in the spring. I tend to use one of the chemicals for autumn and oxalic at other times.

 

[pargyle]

About a cupful is what I do ... I use the Abelo 3 in 1 tester so the cup size is pretty constant but I don't count the bees in !

https://www.abelo.co.uk/shop/varroa-control/varroa-tester-3in1/
As I don't treat it's important to know what's going on with varroa .. anything more than 3 or 4 mites in a cupful and I would be worrying... although I do see the occasional spike .. when I do, I retest a week or so later and usually it goes down. I rarely see more than 1 or 2 mites and quite often none at all but I'm not stupid ... there are always going to be varroa present.

To be honest, I've got to know my bees over the years and there are plenty of signs when a colony is not coping with the mites and if I thought one was not coping then they would get a blast of OA.

 

[Xander]

Ok thanks for your answers, much appreciated.
I'll do a check on the colony in the out apiary I caught this year just to see if they brought a load of the beggars with them.
The hives in my home apiary I know have varroa and I'll do much the same as you treatment wise just wanted to assess the load on the swarm before bringing them home for the winter.
I don't want to bring a "varroa bomb" home.
I think I'm correct in thinking that drones spread mites between hives as they do a lot of drifting?
Rob.

 

[pargyle]

Ok thanks for your answers, much appreciated.
I'll do a check on the colony in the out apiary I caught this year just to see if they brought a load of the beggars with them.
The hives in my home apiary I know have varroa and I'll do much the same as you treatment wise just wanted to assess the load on the swarm before bringing them home for the winter.
I don't want to bring a "varroa bomb" home.
I think I'm correct in thinking that drones spread mites between hives as they do a lot of drifting?
Rob.

There's a lot of nonsense talked about 'varroa bomb' colonies .. some colonies are prone to high mite loads, some seem to be perpetually low. I don't think there's any evidence that drone drifting spreads varroa ... I think colonies dying out and being robbed is probably the likely cause of sudden increased varroa levels but - varroa bombs ? Not convinced...

 

[Xander]

That's a relief.

 

[Erichalfbee]

There's a lot of nonsense talked about 'varroa bomb' colonies

Maybe but remember that colony of mine that dropped nearly 8K mites some years ago?
I can't remember how many vapes I did...loads. Gave up and put Apivar in but before I did I blocked up the entrance to catch a couple of hundred returning foragers.....and they had mites on them. Explain that.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Maybe but remember that colony of mine that dropped nearly 8K mites some years ago?
I can't remember how many vapes I did...loads. Gave up and put Apivar in but before I did I blocked up the entrance to catch a couple of hundred returning foragers.....and they had mites on them. Explain that.

happened to me once, colonies at one apiary went into one winter in perfect health, low varroa levels. by the spring they were riddled, marked evident signs of varoosis and colonies were struggling, had to do a full OA cycle to get them anywhere near decent health. Spoke to the local SBI (now retired) and he dropped heavy hints as to two nearby leavitalone/do nothing beekeepers that he had previously noted as being a bee health risk. they had also lost all their colonies that winter.
The same thing happened a few years later, not as catastrophic but we picked it up as I was doing my DASH benchmarking

 

[pargyle]

happened to me once, colonies at one apiary went into one winter in perfect health, low varroa levels. by the spring they were riddled, marked evident signs of varoosis and colonies were struggling, had to do a full OA cycle to get them anywhere near decent health. Spoke to the local SBI (now retired) and he dropped heavy hints as to two nearby leavitalone/do nothing beekeepers that he had previously noted as being a bee health risk. they had also lost all their colonies that winter.
The same thing happened a few years later, not as catastrophic but we picked it up as I was doing my DASH benchmarking

I think that's the reality ... dying colonies that are heavily infested get robbed out ... and the mites take the opportunity to jump ship on the nearest transport - the robbers. I'm not excusing anyone for keeping colonies that are riddled with mites - but I know lots of beekeepers who treat religiously ... some colonies respond well to treatment and others seem totally prone to infestation no matter what. Whether those infested colonies are 'varroa bombs' is what I'm not sure about - heavily infested colonies that are weak or dying out - these are the real risks - bees are opportunists and a free meal from a weak colony - temptation that will be hard to resist.

 

[pargyle]

Maybe but remember that colony of mine that dropped nearly 8K mites some years ago?
I can't remember how many vapes I did...loads. Gave up and put Apivar in but before I did I blocked up the entrance to catch a couple of hundred returning foragers.....and they had mites on them. Explain that.

Robbing a weak, dying and heavily infested hive ... see above. What I'm questioning is whether strong colonies that have varroa in residence - often referred to as 'Varroa bombs' are actually infecting other colonies in the vicinity to any great extent. Hence my comment as to whether Varroa Bombs actually exist ? Some colonies seem to cope with some levels of varroa and never really increase or decrease - others just seem to be prone to escalating infestation and once weakened get robbed or die out ...Just my thoughts, I have no evidence. Who knows ?

 

[hemo]

Imv a varroa bomb is exactly as being spoken of , a don't care beekeeper who doesn't monitor let alone treating . It's ok being a leave alone beek but surely like yourself one must take steps to ensure they are healthy and not an armageddon colony that will cause other beeks issues.

 

[pargyle]

Imv a varroa bomb is exactly as being spoken of , a don't care beekeeper who doesn't monitor let alone treating . It's ok being a leave a lone beek but surely like yourself one must take steps to ensure they are healthy and not an armageddon colony that will cause other beeks issues.

You are missing the point ... I agree, when a heavily infested hive reaches the stage where it is either weakened to the point where it can be robbed or it dies out completely - it is a target for robbers and if your bees are in the vicinity they could be the ones doing the robbing and your colony becomes the over infested one. It can happen at any time during the season but the real risk times are spring - when a weak colony over winter has no ability to defend or late in the season when there is not much forage about and agressive robbing of a weaker hive can occur.

It's why I advocate regular, proper, testing for varroa ... a colony can go from nought to sixty in no time at all if they are out robbing.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

when a heavily infested hive reaches the stage where it is either weakened to the point where it can be robbed or it dies out completely -

......it becomes a varroa bomb

 

[Erichalfbee]

Whether those infested colonies are 'varroa bombs' is what I'm not sure about - heavily infested colonies that are weak or dying out - these are the real risks - bees are opportunists and a free meal from a weak colony - temptation that will be hard to resist.

Philip. A varroa bomb ( some call them more bombs) are collapsing colonies due to overwhelming varroa infestation

 

[pargyle]

Philip. A varroa bomb ( some call them more bombs) are collapsing colonies due to overwhelming varroa infestation

I agree with that ... but there appears to be a misconception that any colony that is not treated for varroa is a varroa bomb ... and that drone drifting is a cause of varroa spreading. Neither of which I think ate valid...