vicious bees and allergy

[purplekate]

This is my second year of beekeeping & have 2 hives of pretty vicious bees. I can't look at them without getting stung. I looked at them this week on got between 20+ stings. I'm not panicked by it, I just carry on, but a lot of time is wasted removing stings and smoking the area. This week the swelling from stings got so bad I went to the doctors, who believes I may be allergic to them as I was running a high temperature and due to the severity of the swellings.

I don't want to stop keeping bees and like to requeen with a less vicious local strain. My dilemma is that talking to the old gentleman I had the bees from they come from 'an old English' strain. They're very dark, produce loads of honey (last year 50-60lbs per hive), they don't tend to swarm and I've found very little varroa (none this year so far). I feel they should continue, but it's not practical for me to keep these 2 queens.

Has anyone got any advise on this situation??

Thanks
Kate

 

[Swarm]

I bet you were bad after 20 stings!! There are nice queens available just west from you.

edit: Your symptoms sound pretty much what I would expect. One sting on Wednesday, my arm is still swollen from elbow to wrist.

 

[o.stjohn]

Suggestion: suit and gloves

 

[Ross]

Double up under your suit and wear gloves, not just the thin latex or nitrile ones or even marigolds but thick rubber beekeepers gloves. I have had unbelievable bees in the past which left over 60 stings, just in the hood when inspecting, but nothing got through (very sweaty though). Once you are properly protected you can inspect even the worst colonies without fear of any stings.

Re-queen with a local queen, or simply kill off your queen and let them produce a replacement. I would do one colony at a time just in case of failed mating etc.

Ross

 

[thebhoy]

Given that you say they are not, or appear not, to be affected by varroa I would look to see whether that could be confirmed.....if it is, or they show high resistance to it,then more opportunities would arise for breeding those qualities into future more peaceful strains.

It is by chance that many such positive traits are discovered or only discovered after they have been destroyed.

Worth getting checked if possible....would also be money to be made from it.

 

[Tom Bick]

Do you give the smoke time to work? Smoke the hive and then walk away for 3-4 mins and then start your inspection nice and slow with the odd bit of smoke across the frames.

If one hive is more reactionary than the other inspect this 2nd and wash your hive tool and gloves in washing soda or even change your gloves for the 2nd. The smell from your first hive on your hive tool and gloves can kick things off worse than normal.

The above is what I have found works on spiky bees but to be honest best to re-queen.

 

[Swarm]

Out of interest, have they always been like this?

 

[BeeJayBee]

I can't add much to the above, but make sure you wash your suit and gloves after you've been stung, and before you inspect again. The sting pheromone lingers for a long time. You can wash your gloves in the bucket of washing soda you use to clean your hive tool.

Doubling up the protective layer can help too, thick gloves with a pair of nitrile disposables over the top can make the thicker ones fit better. Sleeve protectors over your suit if you don't want to wear something with long sleeves beneath it. You can make them quite easily from some worn out trousers.

If you've tried everything everybody has suggested and they're still nasty it might be worth getting somebody else from your BKA to inspect them, and find out what they recommend.

 

[Chris Luck]

I'd keep them and be a bit more careful, that number of stings in such a short period of time sounds a bit casual even by my standards.

Chris

 

[chrismcd]

Try creeping up on them!

Do you give the smoke time to work? Smoke the hive and then walk away for 3-4 mins and then start your inspection nice and slow with the odd bit of smoke across the frames.

If one hive is more reactionary than the other inspect this 2nd and wash your hive tool and gloves in washing soda or even change your gloves for the 2nd. The smell from your first hive on your hive tool and gloves can kick things off worse than normal.

I had some Italian hybrids that were excitable and flew up as soon as the hive was opened. They then tended to blunder into me, the amount of alarm pheremone increased and it all went downhill from there.

Can I suggest that, following on from what Tom Bick has said, that you work hard at keeping thinking that there is a forest fire in the distance rather than some mammalian predator trying to steal their honey!

So, keep as low as possible (squat down or sit on a stool), make sure your shadow keeps away from the surface of the frames as much as possible and try and stay downwind - so they cannot see or smell you!

I would also try using cover cloths, to reduce the number that can fly up, and wafting smoke around to keep them distracted.

If you can delay the bees working out what is going on till you have completed your inspection - job done

 

[Arfermo]

I've had similar problems especially when, as at present, a hive is queenless. Double layers of all clothing and tucked into wellies as bees usually walk upwards. The gloves I use are the super rubber washing up ones from Mr J Sainsxxxbry with parcel tape around the point where the gloves overlap the suit so as to stop bees going down/up into the gloves. No stings then ever - unless something comes undone.

 

[pargyle]

Have you tried less smoke ? Or even no smoke ? Get your smoker going but leave it some distance away from the hive. Perhaps try substituting smoke for a very weak sugar solution in one of those plant misting bottles, you don't have to drown them in it just a light mist in their general direction. The other thing that you should really try (and I know it's hard when you are anticipating them being viscious) is to be ultra calm when you go near them, move slowly, towards the hives and let them see you coming but almost in slow motion. It sounds a bit loony but they do sense movement more than anything with their eyes, the slower you move the less they will actually notice you.

I know this is pretty rich coming from me, as my bees are on drugs I think, they are so easy going, but I've never used smoke on them - or anything else for that matter and I can stand in front of the hive talking to them and they just fly around me. Never a sting ....

If they are AMM they are a pretty rare strain these days and you should try and keep them as much as possible - those genes are pretty special.

I'd agree with Afermo on the PPE as well - the more you feel protected the more calm and confident you will be - and give everything a real good wash with washing soda to get rid of those sting pheremones - they will stir them up for sure.

 

[itma]

Echo the comments on smoke. Early and frequent but not too much.

And a water mister is a very useful tool, especially once you have got to the stage where more smoke just makes them madder ...

No harm in inviting another beek round to see the behaviour and confirm whether or not the problem lies with the bees or ... elsewhere!

 

[Polyanwood]

If they are being really mean and I have to do a full inspection, I move the brood box about 6 feet away (rest it on a floor or roof), leave them 5 minutes for some of the flying bees to go back to the old site and then go through them. less grief for me, and fewer dead bees.

 

[pargyle]

Echo the comments on smoke. Early and frequent but not too much.

And a water mister is a very useful tool, especially once you have got to the stage where more smoke just makes them madder ...

No harm in inviting another beek round to see the behaviour and confirm whether or not the problem lies with the bees or ... elsewhere!

That's nicely put ItMA ... our labrador dog only pulls on the lead when he's got SWMBO on the other end ... knows he can get away with it ... are bees the same ?

 

[drstitson]

mild systemic symptoms (eg temp) after 20 stings aren't an allergy IMHO.

 

[Erichalfbee]

There are nice queens available just west from you.

Where.................please

 

[Bead]

Ricky Wilson's dark Welsh queens are great - the bees from them are wonderfully gentle and easy to work with. My colony from Ricky's queen survived the awful winter well and have built up quickly. Previously, I had one colony that was an italian/buckfast cross - to say they were a bit excitable would be putting it mildly.

I don't know whether it's allowed to put contact details here, but if you want Ricky's number/email, PM me. He charges £25 per queen (P&P included).

 

[peter genders]

glad someone had better luck than me.

 

[itma]

... make sure you wash your suit and gloves after you've been stung, and before you inspect again. The sting pheromone lingers for a long time. You can wash your gloves in the bucket of washing soda you use to clean your hive tool.

This aspect deserves more emphasis.
Once a sting has gone in, unless masked, it will attract others.

While at the hives, you can wipe your hands on a rag with a few drops of oil of cloves to mask the pheromones. Someone here suggested Olbas Oil as an alternative.
I suspect that this could also be another use for the oft-advised Airwick spray... (some suffice with a puff of smoke, but I try and do better!)

And another thing that I don't think has been mentioned is perfumes and the like. Some scents drive the bees wild. Having another beek around would be a useful 'control' test to see whether they were attacking generally, or just attacking you. Over-ripe banana has some chemicals in common with beesting alarm pheromone - so leave the bananas until after you have inspected the hives.

Where it is two bad hives out of two, it is worth considering what common elements might possibly be causing this - even your choice of smoker fuel.

Invite someone round for a second opinion - but do warn them first!