VAROMOR- Any good

[For want of a better word]

It appears to me that The solution is kept in a tank from where it is pumped to the burner, from where the fluid carrier is burnt off and the OA or whatever then sublimates. So should not clog.

Revisiting this thread, as I acquired a Varomor to experiment with...

I will attempt to dispel some of the myths that appear to be extant at the moment... mostly it seem being disseminated from those who have not had any experience of using the device!

A measured quantity of pure (Analar) Oxalic Acid is pumped to the hot tube dissolved in a carrier fluid ( ethanol) to give an accurate dose.
In the hot tube the heat evaporates the carrier fluid ( 98% ethanol) and instantly caused the OA to turn into a gaseous form.
The rapidly expanding ethanol forces the vaporised OA out of the end of the tube in a jet of gas.
The thin tube allows the vaporised OA gas to enter the hive through the entrance.

Using device as per instructions I have not seen any adverse problems with the bees, and works as effectively as using a Varrox vaporiser ( 2g dose 2 minutes + 2 to settle) placed in the entrance.

Down side is that Varrox is completed in one visit... but Varomor takes 3!

Is anyone else ACTIVELY using this specific OA vaporising device?

Mytten da

 

[Beefriendly]

and instantly caused the OA to turn into a gaseous form.
The rapidly expanding ethanol forces the vaporised OA out of the end of the tube in a jet of gas.
The thin tube allows the vaporised OA gas to enter the hive through the entran

These devices are called foggers for the simple reason they create a fog of moisture from whatever solvent you are using with whatever you have put in it. They do not sublimate the OA nor create OA gas.
Their mode of action, if indeed there is a mode, is NOT the same as sublimation which involves no carriers.
Hoppy here is pulling the wool over your eyes. Believe his misguided, although probably well intended, ramblings at your own peril it's your bees that will suffer in the end.

Is anyone else ACTIVELY using this specific OA vaporising device?

This is the issue; it is NOT a specific OA vaporising device.

 

[charlievictorbravo]

Revisiting this thread, as I acquired a Varomor to experiment with...

I will attempt to dispel some of the myths that appear to be extant at the moment... mostly it seem being disseminated from those who have not had any experience of using the device!

A measured quantity of pure (Analar) Oxalic Acid is pumped to the hot tube dissolved in a carrier fluid ( ethanol) to give an accurate dose.
In the hot tube the heat evaporates the carrier fluid ( 98% ethanol) and instantly caused the OA to turn into a gaseous form.
The rapidly expanding ethanol forces the vaporised OA out of the end of the tube in a jet of gas.
The thin tube allows the vaporised OA gas to enter the hive through the entrance.

Using device as per instructions I have not seen any adverse problems with the bees, and works as effectively as using a Varrox vaporiser ( 2g dose 2 minutes + 2 to settle) placed in the entrance.

Down side is that Varrox is completed in one visit... but Varomor takes 3!

Is anyone else ACTIVELY using this specific OA vaporising device?

Mytten da

ICH - a couple of questions:

1. why does it require 3 visits to use this device on a hive?
2. how do you know that it's sublimating the OA at 157°C and not decomposing it into Formic Acid et al at 185°C? With something like a Varrox, we know that the active ingredient has got to go through the sublimating temperature to reach the decomposing temperature but in the heated chamber of the Varomor who knows what is happening. Having said that, Formic Acid is also a miticide so maybe no harm done.

CVB

 

[Eyeman]

ICH - a couple of questions:

1. why does it require 3 visits to use this device on a hive?
2. how do you know that it's sublimating the OA at 157°C and not decomposing it into Formic Acid et al at 185°C? With something like a Varrox, we know that the active ingredient has got to go through the sublimating temperature to reach the decomposing temperature but in the heated chamber of the Varomor who knows what is happening. Having said that, Formic Acid is also a miticide so maybe no harm done.

CVB

The sublimox pan has a surface temp of 300' C so high temps are unlikely to be a problem.

 

[For want of a better word]

ICH - a couple of questions:

1. why does it require 3 visits to use this device on a hive?
2. how do you know that it's sublimating the OA at 157°C and not decomposing it into Formic Acid et al at 185°C? With something like a Varrox, we know that the active ingredient has got to go through the sublimating temperature to reach the decomposing temperature but in the heated chamber of the Varomor who knows what is happening. Having said that, Formic Acid is also a miticide so maybe no harm done.

CVB

I tried a mix of OA with water and droplets of the superheated fog produced condensed on a cold watch glass with droplets of water...

With ethanol the gas that emitted from the nozel sublimated onto the cold watch glass without any droplets of water.

The gas burner is heating the gassification coil to excess of 185 degrees c and causes the OA to turn into a gas.

Reason for three visits is on the recommendations of the manufacturer and OA only has any efficacy on the phoretic Varroa mite. Similarly the manufacturers recommendation is for an OA + Thymol solution made up in 98 % ethanol.


The Varomor is advertised as a device for administering a number of different apiculture treatments. I can not find reference to the word fogger in any of the literature that came with the device, Perhaps there is no direct translation from Russian to English for this word. I will ask our Russian girlfriend.

Yeghes da

 

[Beefriendly]

HOW DOES A THERMAL FOGGER OPERATE?

In a thermal fogger such as this one...., the formulation (mixture of the active ingredient with a carrier that is usually a mineral oil), is exposed to a hot air current coming from the exhaust of a pulse-jet engine.
The high velocity and temperature of these gases causes immediate fragmentation and partial evaporation of the fluid which is expelled through the exhaust pipe. As soon as it encounters with the ambient air at a much lower temperature, this stream is condensed into tiny droplets that form a dense fog.
This mist contain an appropriate dose of the active ingredient in each of the micro droplets that compose it, and has the ability to "float" and move long distances without losing their effectiveness, penetrating and accessing sites with dense vegetation, reaching the most inaccessible places.

Ohhh and its flammable as well, particularity when ethanol is your solvent....don't smoke and fog at the same time!

 

[sherwood]

I assume it's US so 110V.

Eyes testing time I think its gas powered:

 

[For want of a better word]

In reply as my posts seem to be vanishing as soon as I post!

Readers can judge for themselves how to administer OA via sublimation.

The methodology I use with my Varomor butane/propane powered device uses a measured amount of Oxalic acid and Thymol crystals in a solution of 98% ethanol.
The high temperature generated within the stainless steel delivery tube that is heated by the gas flame, causes the OA to vaporise into a gas which once injected into the beehive via the entrance sublimates within the hive.

One of the growers where I have an apiary uses "gas foggers" in his glass houses where he produces cut flowers for the florist trade, the devices have a superficial appearance to the Varomor vaporiser, but use kerosene and the design is fundamentally different.
I carried out some experiments with OA and one of these foggers and it was not effective in producing a satisfactory gassification of the OA.
He now uses a bio preditor method to control the mites/thrips that can attack and ruin the flowers, only using the fogger devices for a deep clean before the flowering season.

Yeghes da

 

[Beefriendly]

the OA to vaporise into a gas which once injected into the beehive via the entrance sublimates within the hive.

No it produces very tiny droplets of very hot alcohol that act as a carrier for the OA which is in solution. They just look like a gas....which is why they are called foggers....see any utube video of a fogger in action.
Sublimation is going from solid to gas without a liquid phase. Do please get this basic fact correct.
Going from a gas to a solid is called deposition or desublimation, although in the case of the varomor it's evaporation of the hot alcohol solvent that leaves a condensate of OA behind.

 

[mbc]

I wouldn't be puffing too fiercely on my cigar next to a cloud of ethanol vapour either

 

[nantmoel]

Yes, just an fgmo fogger, otherwise known as an insecticide fogger, these were used extensively by NDBKA back about 15 years ago, first only using fgmo, then fgmo plus thymol, was not found to be effective enough...and I've never seen bees in such a sorry state as after using these things on them.

Can I ask what you use for varroa control?

 

[For want of a better word]

I wouldn't be puffing too fiercely on my cigar next to a cloud of ethanol vapour either

I have tried to light the substance that emits from the Varomor and it did not ignite!... puting the misconception that it is vaporised ethanol to bed for good.
The vapour from the Varomor behaves exactly the same as the vapour from my Varox... ie the OA SUBLIMATES BACK TO A SOLID

The disagreeable Professor Beef will just have to accept this I am afraid... there are no black swans.. springs to mind!!!

Yeghes da

 

[For want of a better word]

Can I ask what you use for varroa control?

Sublimox......

Hope Santa is reading this tread !

Nos da

 

[Hivemaker.]

can i ask what you use for varroa control?

i p m.

 

[For want of a better word]

No it produces very tiny droplets of very hot alcohol that act as a carrier for the OA which is in solution. They just look like a gas....which is why they are called foggers....see any utube video of a fogger in action.
Sublimation is going from solid to gas without a liquid phase. Do please get this basic fact correct.
Going from a gas to a solid is called deposition or desublimation, although in the case of the varomor it's evaporation of the hot alcohol solvent that leaves a condensate of OA behind.

CarP !

Mod feel free to delete all this misinformation!

Nos da

 

[Beefriendly]

OA SUBLIMATES BACK TO A SOLID

Nothing sublimates back to a solid! You have got it totally the wrong way round. When a gas changes directly into a solid it's called deposition or desublimation.


Fallacy of invincible ignorance springs to mind!

 

[Swarm]

i p m.

 

[Millet]

i p m.

Forgive my brain dead moment or moments but what is i p m. , some improvised equipment me thinks.

 

[Beefriendly]

Integrated Pest Management

Using several different methods to treat varroa over the season, e.g.using sacrificial drone comb/brood break/OA vaporization etc.

 

[Millet]

Integrated Pest Management

Using several different methods to treat varroa over the season, e.g.using sacrificial drone comb/brood break/OA vaporization etc.

Cheers but you forgot Sugar roll and what was that other thing ? , it began with a V that splatters Alcohol all over the shop.