Update on buyer beware thread

[alanf]

I know there is overnight special delivery within the UK and it is very good, but can you get overnight special delivery from places like New Zealand,Australia,Argentina, Greece or many other places within the EU.

Guaranteed delivery or Express options are available from and to nearly everywhere within reach of frequent scheduled international flights. The big international courier/parcel firms like DHL, FedEx etc and the national postal services such as Royal Mail buy space in the cargo holds of the scheduled airlines.

However, conditions in a cargo hold can be cold and dry for several hours, and it's hot sat on the apron in the sun. Not really a problem within the usual limits for inanimate objects, but might be for bees. Are queens sent as routine parcels or do they need special handling?

 

[yeogi75]

Guaranteed delivery or Express options are available from and to nearly everywhere within reach of frequent scheduled international flights. The big international courier/parcel firms like DHL, FedEx etc and the national postal services such as Royal Mail buy space in the cargo holds of the scheduled airlines.

However, conditions in a cargo hold can be cold and dry for several hours, and it's hot sat on the apron in the sun. Not really a problem within the usual limits for inanimate objects, but might be for bees. Are queens sent as routine parcels or do they need special handling?

are they sent different like live stock or parcel post ?

 

[victor meldrew]

I have received Queens from Cyprus with no problems whatsoever !
I have received Queens from Greece via a UK Handling company who re-mailed to me still no problems .In each case the Queens were in peak condition .
Sometimes postie has knocked on the door and said your bees are here, I hope they are ok ,sometimes they have been dropped through the letter box and I've found them on the mat, still no probs!
I think what we have here is an isolated case, where the complainant has approached the provider in a less than diplomatic way and further fuelled the flames by voicing his grievance in public !
Mated Queens are not off a production (though sometimes it appears thus)line . It's not as simple as " Ok mate I'll bunk another in the post "when the carrier is the fly in the ointment !
VM


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Haughton Honey]

I have received Queens from Cyprus with no problems whatsoever !
I have received Queens from Greece via a UK Handling company who re-mailed to me still no problems .In each case the Queens were in peak condition .
Sometimes postie has knocked on the door and said your bees are here, I hope they are ok ,sometimes they have been dropped through the letter box and I've found them on the mat, still no probs!
I think what we have here is an isolated case, where the complainant has approached the provider in a less than diplomatic way and further fuelled the flames by voicing his grievance in public !
Mated Queens are not off a production (though sometimes it appears thus)line . It's not as simple as " Ok mate I'll bunk another in the post "when the carrier is the fly in the ointment !
VM

Well said.

Let's put this one to bed shall we.

 

[Excession]

Can we set up a poll for this one?

I am thinking, most dull thread ever...

 

[alanf]

I have received Queens from Cyprus with no problems whatsoever !
I have received Queens from Greece via a UK Handling company who re-mailed to me still no problems .In each case the Queens were in peak condition .
Sometimes postie has knocked on the door and said your bees are here, I hope they are ok ,sometimes they have been dropped through the letter box and I've found them on the mat, still no probs!

Given that there are 10,000 or so queens coming into the UK every year (FERA numbers) and a substantial minority are in the 12-24 hours flying time range, that must be the case for nearly all the imports.

Out of passing interest, I did a quick search; nothing on bees. There was a study on lab mice - there's quite a trade in specific genetic traits. Of over 100 shipments monitored, nearly half had high temperatures (over 29.4C) and around 15% low (under 7.2C - US study probably monitoring in F) All but one shipment survived and that one saw temperatures over 40C. Most extremes were during stopovers. I guess if a shipment gets mis-sorted for whatever reason, that's going to have the same sort of problems as extended stopovers. Baggage gets misrouted or delayed, cargo much the same but it's a small percentage. Most airlines aim for less than a handful per thousand. Express or premium services may help, but they would never eliminate errors or random disruptions completely. Seems like no more than bad luck if it's your shipment delayed.

 

[cjhart2]

Given that there are 10,000 or so queens coming into the UK every year (FERA numbers)


10,000 queens a year , if this is true , i'm gobsmacked .

 

[Chris B]

Given that there are 10,000 or so queens coming into the UK every year (FERA numbers)


10,000 queens a year , if this is true , i'm gobsmacked .

It sounds about right.

Probably half of them die on introduction if the truth be known.

 

[Black Comb]

That's the next complaint which will be the subject of another thread

 

[mbc]

It sounds about right.

Probably half of them die on introduction if the truth be known.

Would it be uncharitable to wish all of them did ?

 

[MuswellMetro]

It sounds about right.

Probably half of them die on introduction if the truth be known.

yep, been there done that, think over the last few years, emergency imports in May have had only 50% success rate, but needs must

 

[thorn]

Would it be uncharitable to wish all of them did ?

How do diseases, parasites etc get into this country in the main? Would it be via imported bees by any chance?

 

[mbc]

How do diseases, parasites etc get into this country in the main? Would it be via imported bees by any chance?

Alien pests getting a foothold is definately a downside but it was the genetics I'd rather not arrive.

 

[Bob Bee]

Would it be uncharitable to wish all of them did ?

Just honest......

 

[alanf]

It sounds about right.

Probably half of them die on introduction if the truth be known.

From the SE RBI 2012 Report (thanks due to Alan Byham):

From the EU – 8267 queens were imported from Austria, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Germany, Greece, Italy, Poland, Romania, Slovenia & Spain. Up from last year (4113) the largest importer being Greece at 3630
From 3rd countries (non EU) – 590 queens were imported from Argentina (100) and New Zealand (490). Much reduced on last year’s total of 1762

10,000 in round numbers. These are the official FERA numbers for England and Wales, just under 9,000 in 2012, fewer in 2011, more in 2010. I assume they are gathered from the import forms and inspection notifications; all exports must have disease inspection paperwork and be notified to FERA inspectors before arrival here. Scotland and NI have a similar regime but I can't see the numbers. Where queens are being imported by dealers for selling on, the paperwork is probably in order but there are no doubt "informal" imports sent by friends and relations which are unrecorded.

In context, the numbers suggest around 5% of the hives being re-queened by imports in a year if they were all successful. For those concerned with genetic purity, half the total UK genetic stock of honey bees we had as recently as 1998 has been replaced. Statistically, that's a broad approximation since the imports could be concentrated with a few large honey producers (imports replacing imports), and while not all queen introductions are successful, not all queens are replaced every year. However, it does mean that for most of the UK the idea of "local" bees adapting to conditions is more of a moving target than many seem to assume.

 

[Chris B]

Would it be uncharitable to wish all of them did ?

Forum software's gone weird and done a mind-meld with me and mbc. Interesting as we seem to have opposing views on this. My best looking bees this spring are largely headed by 2012 queens from Cyprus, which also suffered lowest winter losses. They seem to be averaging about 50% more brood and bees than other queens, and it's looking like I'll get at least a modest spring crop from them while others are still building up.

 

[waverider]

None of my 12 colonies are headed by imported queens. All survived winter, one colony has DLQ. Would prefer to support local or national beekeepers for queens rather than other sources.

 

[fiftyjon]

Just received my ordered queens from a reputable supplier. Tracking number, great communications and first class service.

The queens I have received from them before were first class and I would expect these to be no different.

 

[richardbees]

one colony has DLQ

waverider

Is this all the brood or just a few unusual slabs of drone brood on worker foundation?
I suspect I may have the same problem but it's not as obvious as hitherto....
Richard

 

[ashleybee]

None of my 12 colonies are headed by imported queens. All survived winter, one colony has DLQ. Would prefer to support local or national beekeepers for queens rather than other sources.

Thats fine if you only have a dozen but if you've a lot more and depend on them for a big chunk or all of you income then sometimes you need the early ones to releave the impact of winter losses or DLQ's the early queens are few and far between in the uk places like greece have the right climate for producing reliable early queens.
AB