Uniting two 12x14 hives

[Bosleeu]

I have two queenright 12x14 colonies, one is a very strong 6 frame nuc, the other a full colony with brood on about 7 frames and filling a super steadily.

Both have young queens mated recently and building up nicely. I have too many bees and the market is not great for sellign nucs at the moment, so was thinking about uniting the two, finding a new home for one of the queens and to make one huge colony and maximise the chestnut flow which (hopefully) will start soon.

I have not united two such large colonies before, normally I do this in Autumn as a way of requeening, and it's normally standard boxes. I have not really had any problems so far. My main concern is opening the hive up after a week to find a lot of queencells, any suggestions to help prevent this will be much appreciated.

Would really appreciate it if people could share their experiences as to whether they have done this sort of thing before and what sort of problems I need to watch out for. Speculation is also wellcome, and any new beekeepers that want to comment is also appreciated.

I have read the textbooks and I have read up on this and other forums, I have also untited colonies before, what I need is to hear what people's thoughts and experiences are, please don't tell me to read, then think. I am looking to learn from discussion rather than from reading up.

Many thanks

 

[MartinL]

I have two queenright 12x14 colonies, one is a very strong 6 frame nuc, the other a full colony with brood on about 7 frames and filling a super steadily.

Both have young queens mated recently and building up nicely. I have too many bees and the market is not great for sellign nucs at the moment,
. . . . . any suggestions to help prevent this will be much appreciated.

I am looking to learn from discussion rather than from reading up.

Many thanks

Would have thought uniting was something to have been done in April/ September!
If you break even on the sale of the nuke surely that would be better than loosing the equivalent number in a swarm from the super-colony you're trying to establish by uniting this late/early in the season?

Don't be a Scrouge, let some "Tiny Tim nubee" have the nuke at cost price.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Would have thought uniting was something to have been done in April/ September!

I don't know.....I thought it was fairly standard practice after AS if you don't want to make increase. I have done two, both 14 x 12.
One was completely straight forward; one queen in a nuc Q- on top of Q+, super put on top.The newspaper was shredded in a day, boxes consolidated three days later.Spare brood frames were divided between the spare queen and a swarm.
The other was a little more complicated in that there were two supers between the brood boxes so a few queen cells were made in the top box. I just took them away and no more were made.
If you mean running the colony as a double 14 x 12 then I would find that too much so can't help....sorry

 

[Bosleeu]

If you mean running the colony as a double 14 x 12 then I would find that too much so can't help....sorry

Agreed. No I won't try that. Was planning to catch the queen in the Nuc making it Queenless, unite the two boxes with newspaper, super in between, then check the top box for queencells a few days later and consolidate it down to one, box, adding supers. Any frames of brood extra can go into another colony being built up.

Many thanks for your replies. I plan to rehome the queen to somebody that needs her. I really want to get a good honey crop this season, so not too keen to give the Nuc away. Most people seem to have the bees they want down here in anyway.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

Was planning to catch the queen in the Nuc making it Queenless, unite the two boxes with newspaper, super in between, then check the top box for queencells a few days later and consolidate it down to one, box, adding supers. Any frames of brood extra can go into another colony being built up.

Makes sense to me.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

I have two queenright 12x14 colonies, one is a very strong 6 frame nuc, the other a full colony with brood on about 7 frames and filling a super steadily.

Both have young queens mated recently and building up nicely. I have too many bees and the market is not great for sellign nucs at the moment, so was thinking about uniting the two, finding a new home for one of the queens and to make one huge colony and maximise the chestnut flow which (hopefully) will start soon.

I have not united two such large colonies before, normally I do this in Autumn as a way of requeening, and it's normally standard boxes. I have not really had any problems so far. My main concern is opening the hive up after a week to find a lot of queencells, any suggestions to help prevent this will be much appreciated.

Would really appreciate it if people could share their experiences as to whether they have done this sort of thing before and what sort of problems I need to watch out for. Speculation is also wellcome, and any new beekeepers that want to comment is also appreciated.

I have read the textbooks and I have read up on this and other forums, I have also untited colonies before, what I need is to hear what people's thoughts and experiences are, please don't tell me to read, then think. I am looking to learn from discussion rather than from reading up.

Many thanks

One of my 14 x 12 colonies ended up queenless last year. I united it with another 14 x 12 using the paper method, placing the queenless colony above the paper. A few slits in the paper and left them for a few days before looking in and finding everyone getting along fine plus the irritable bees were calm and peaceful.

 

[itma]

While you are looking for someone wanting Q, you can be 'stepping' the nuc closer to the full colony.

If there is no worthwhile outlet for Q, I'd suggest keeping her in the (much weakened) nuc. Whether for holding her pending demand, or even potentially for overwintering the nuc, you don't need to dedicate much beepower to the task right now.
And the rest of the nuc can be joined to the hive colony.

That means that you could simply move much of the nuc's brood into the hive colony AND (having worked the nuc right up the hive and left it there for a few days) then move the nuc several yards away, so that many flying bees would be returning to the hive, rather than the nuc - achieving much of the strengthening without actually doing a 'merge'.
Just ensure that the nuc has enough stores and drawn comb - and a greatly reduced entrance (being at risk of being robbed).


There's nothing special about combining 14x12's, other than the pain in the back of moving them around (so much easier with two people).
14x12 nucs on the other hand are very easily shifted and transported!

 

[Bosleeu]

While you are looking for someone wanting Q, you can be 'stepping' the nuc closer to the full colony.

If there is no worthwhile outlet for Q, I'd suggest keeping her in the (much weakened) nuc. Whether for holding her pending demand, or even potentially for overwintering the nuc, you don't need to dedicate much beepower to the task right now.
And the rest of the nuc can be joined to the hive colony.

That means that you could simply move much of the nuc's brood into the hive colony AND (having worked the nuc right up the hive and left it there for a few days) then move the nuc several yards away, so that many flying bees would be returning to the hive, rather than the nuc - achieving much of the strengthening without actually doing a 'merge'.
Just ensure that the nuc has enough stores and drawn comb - and a greatly reduced entrance (being at risk of being robbed).


There's nothing special about combining 14x12's, other than the pain in the back of moving them around (so much easier with two people).
14x12 nucs on the other hand are very easily shifted and transported!

Many thanks, I have moved the Nuc to just "behind" the colony over the last few days, facing 90 degrees the other way. The moving away plan you suggest will also help me find the queen afterwards, as she is not easy to find amongst all those bees.

When I move the Nuc away I can move the big colony back about 2 feet, making it easy for bees returning to both positions to enter.

After a few days will transfer the brood from the Nuc over to the big colony, and perhaps distribute some to other hives that could do with extra brood.

Will move the Nuc next to another hive, so any leftover bees can join them.

Will add another super to accommodate the extra flyers, hopefully full of nectar.

My colonies show no sign of disease, except for the odd varroa drop, so hopefully not be risking to much with all the transfers. It's never been a problem in my 5 short years.

There is somebody waiting for the queen, and hopefully she will do well there.

Many thanks to all, you have been very helpful. This is what I joined the forum for!

 

[Vramin]

While you are looking for someone wanting Q, you can be 'stepping' the nuc closer to the full colony.

If there is no worthwhile outlet for Q, I'd suggest keeping her in the (much weakened) nuc. Whether for holding her pending demand, or even potentially for overwintering the nuc, you don't need to dedicate much beepower to the task right now.
And the rest of the nuc can be joined to the hive colony.

That means that you could simply move much of the nuc's brood into the hive colony AND (having worked the nuc right up the hive and left it there for a few days) then move the nuc several yards away, so that many flying bees would be returning to the hive, rather than the nuc - achieving much of the strengthening without actually doing a 'merge'.
Just ensure that the nuc has enough stores and drawn comb - and a greatly reduced entrance (being at risk of being robbed).

What a good idea - simply move the brood, and the hive to bleed off fliers too. Thank you itma! This is one of those things that seems so obvious once it's pointed out, but it hadn't occurred to me as an alternative to uniting whilst retaining the old queen.

 

[Bosleeu]

Phase one completed, Nuc moved near to another hive several meters away last night, main colony moved a tad back. Flyers started arriving back this morning. The polyhive floor has a notch like opening by the side that resembles the Nuc opening, so quite a lot of them entered there, ending up under the mesh floor.

I turned the hive about 45 degrees and closed the opening with newspaper, and that seems to have solved the problem. All arriving bees now appear to enter the hive, although the newcomers seem to buzz around in front of the hive for a bit before landing. No fighting seen at the entrance.

Second super went on as well so hopefully it will work.

Thanks!

 

[Bosleeu]

Mission accomplished

All done, checked through nuc, transferred some brood over to the other hive, which is now FULL of bees.

There was a reasonable three frames of young bees left with the queen so they have gone to another beekeeper, along with another queen I had spare and didn't have the heart to kill.

Lets hope the "combined" colony brings in lots of honey. Chestnuts are starting to come out, fingers crossed.

Many thanks

 

[Bosleeu]

While you are looking for someone wanting Q, you can be 'stepping' the nuc closer to the full colony.

If there is no worthwhile outlet for Q, I'd suggest keeping her in the (much weakened) nuc. Whether for holding her pending demand, or even potentially for overwintering the nuc, you don't need to dedicate much beepower to the task right now.
And the rest of the nuc can be joined to the hive colony.

That means that you could simply move much of the nuc's brood into the hive colony AND (having worked the nuc right up the hive and left it there for a few days) then move the nuc several yards away, so that many flying bees would be returning to the hive, rather than the nuc - achieving much of the strengthening without actually doing a 'merge'.
Just ensure that the nuc has enough stores and drawn comb - and a greatly reduced entrance (being at risk of being robbed).


There's nothing special about combining 14x12's, other than the pain in the back of moving them around (so much easier with two people).
14x12 nucs on the other hand are very easily shifted and transported!

Just to let you know, following this advice I have now taken 3 very heavy supers off this hive, the other queen and three frames of bees is doing very well with another member of the forum from what I hear.

The hive is strong and healthy, with brood on all frames still.

Thanks.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

The hive is strong and healthy.

Hooray to that.

 

[itma]

Happy to have helped!