Unite - will this work...

[MandF]

Original hive = Q-, 1 frame of brood, couple of semi drawn frames of foundation, lots of foragers (this was my original AS). 3 supers. QCs charged on brood frame.

PolyNuc = 6 frames, queen from above hive which swarmed after the AS.

Once the nuc has been moved to the original hive;

Remove supers, move 5 frames incl 3 occupied frames out of the original hive into another nuc.

Transfer polynuc frames into hive.

Reassemble with supers on top.

Option 1: leave new nuc to raise new queen.
Option 2: after swarm has settled in, place the brood frame back into the original hive (with nurse bees).

As long as the swarm accept the many incoming foragers to the original location (who are their sisters, but not that this matters) I think this is the easiest way to reunite these 2 (because there is only 1 brood frame in the Q- hive).

Non-sarcastic/pedantic/gloating/superior replies only please or else I will get all birdcage again.

 

[For want of a better word]

Appoligies.. a tad confused!
are both colonies queenless... with one with superceedure cells?
or does the swarmed AS poly nuc have a laying queen.

The colony with stacks of food and brood Q-.... let it superceed.
Bring on the queen rite nuc as a separate colony ??? feed if low on stores.
If the poly nuc is Q- , join with other using newspaper, put frames in a BB above the superceeding colony and the store on top with a qe
If the poly nuc is Q+ do as above and the queen will sort things out.

either was unless you want increase and not honey .. join the colonies!

 

[REDWOOD]

could you just let the hive and nuc raise new queens and see first what queen you want to save before uniting

 

[Andy Duff]

Appoligies.. a tad confused!
are both colonies queenless... with one with superceedure cells?
or does the swarmed AS poly nuc have a laying queen.

The colony with stacks of food and brood Q-.... let it superceed.
Bring on the queen rite nuc as a separate colony ??? feed if low on stores.
If the poly nuc is Q- , join with other using newspaper, put frames in a BB above the superceeding colony and the store on top with a qe
If the poly nuc is Q+ do as above and the queen will sort things out.

either was unless you want increase and not honey .. join the colonies!

KISS(keep it simples silly)

 

[MandF]

Sorry guys, let me elaborate;

The polynuc contains the original mated queen and they swarmed from my artificial swarm on saturday. No brood in there, but when I looked earlier today I saw a few eggs, the rest of the space they are currently storing nectar in. So the polynuc has the mated queen, and lots of foragers.

The Q- hive is the A/S, on the original hive location. On friday I performed the A/S and effectively left the queen (which then swarmed) on 1 frame of brood, plus all the original supers in the original location. The brood side of the A/S is still beside the hive, and Im waiting on that raising a new queen.

So, the A/S swarmed, they started to raise a few queen cells on the 1 frame of brood they were left with. They have also only drawn half a frame of foundation on either side. It also has lots of foragers.

My thought was, instead of doing a normal newspaper unite, because the Q- hive is just 1 frame of brood and 8 frames of untouched foundation, would it work to just take the 1 brood frame, 2 part drawn frames and 3 frames of foundation (6 total) out, and swap in the 6 frames of the polynuc.

Ie will this cause a problem with the number of flying bees from the existing hive returning into a "new" hive? I know foragers can normally drift into another hive, but I wasnt sure about the numbers involved here.

I dont think it will be a problem, plus whatever queen pheramones are in there should be the same, as I am really just returning the queen. I just wanted to check.

If its not a problem at all because the pheramones will still be the same in both, could I even just leave the existing brood frame and add the polynuc frames back in there?

 

[MandF]

I mean 'pheromones' obv, but unable to edit the post above

 

[enrico]

I think it will work. The only problem you may encounter is the queen taking off again. That's if I have read it right. I may have to sit down later with a pencil and paper and go through your messages!!!
E

 

[MandF]

Basically I am wanting to reunite the queen who swarmed from the A/S she was in.

The "quick" method has raised the question about whether the pheromones in A/S mean she will be accepted back 'home', or after a queenless period does a hive take on its own unique pheromone (from the brood).

In other words, does the absence of a queen change the pheromones in a hive such that the queen will be seen (smelt) as an outside when returned. Or, does a hive only change pheramone when there is a new queen raised.

I will be taking George's advice and spraying the frames with sugar syrup anyway, but I was just curious about the pheromone issue.

 

[Poly Hive]

TBH not too sure about the pheromones but if the queen has been away, on hols or what ever there is a change in the pheromones for sure.

Given that your hive has swarmed for what ever reason is it a great idea to put them back to how they were pre that event?

"Swarm fever" is better allowed to die off and that can take some three weeks so I would assist your queen in her nuc to build up, and get or set matters up for a new queen on the original stance then either keep the two or unite at that point.

It's appreciated that that may reduce a honey crop but it will make for a better wintering colony and that is the target now really. Or at least should be kept in mind.

PH

 

[MandF]

Thanks PH

I thought she swarmed because the A/S didnt work in switching off their desire to swarm, but that now they have, and she has started laying, she has settled down and if I transfer the 6 frames as-is into the hive, as far as the swarmed bees are concerned I have simply moved their nuc back to its original location, and given them more space.

I could move them side by side, and switch the nuc around to bleed foragers off into the original hive for a few weeks, which would keep the hive stocked with foragers for the flow, and also give me more space in the nuc, which was already virtually full of stores yesterday?

I have no drawn brood foundation, so not sure swapping out brood frames of nectar with foundation from the hive will help the nuc build much - they will draw the comb (no bad thing) but because of the flow they are filling everything with nectar, so she has very little space to actually lay.

Given (assuming) she swarmed because the A/S didnt work in switching off the swarm instinct (which in itself was triggered I think due to the brood area being previously full), now she has swarmed I was hoping that they would be ok.

I would rather do things 'naturally' but as I dont have another spare brood box, and the nuc is already full of stores, as insurance could I put an excluder under the (united) brood box for another couple of weeks until she has brood?