Underfloor-entrance hives failing to keep out wasps

[Amari]

I have had UFEs for over six years and this year is the first when I felt the need to close up the atrium to protect the bees from wasps.

What I did six weeks ago was fashion a piece of plywood to block the whole atrium/landing area but left a small (30 x 30mm) hole in one corner. That seemed to turn the tide and after a while the wasps seemed to give up their mass attacks although the occasional solo wasps tried its luck. I'm now hopeful that the colonies will survive this winter.
CVB

Thanks for that. Glad I'm not the only one.

 

[Amari]

For 3 years I'ved reduced the entrance using sponge and using a length of plastic pop bottle pinned across the entrance seems to keep the wasp out. Cheap solution.

Thanks Bassett. Great idea for conventional entrances but logistically not applicable for UFE

 

[derekm]

You can think tree all you like but Mother Nature provides a wide selection of rips splits knot holes, and that doesn’t include colonies nesting in the ground or rock cavities.

They spent most of their evolution before the holocene where upon we burnt down all the forests to revalue the leaf (Apologies to D. Adams) That Honey bees have put up with the substandard accommodation that we have left them doesn't invalidate my argument

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

They spent most of their evolution before the holocene where upon we burnt down all the forests to revalue the leaf (Apologies to D. Adams) That Honey bees have put up with the substandard accommodation that we have left them doesn't invalidate my argument

Doesn't prove it either.

 

[Amari]

Thanks for all your replies. I've just returned from reversing the nadirs on the seven hives in my HQ apiary, prompted by Ian123's post above.

One colony has been virtually wiped out - all I found was a 2020 queen (purchased from Hivemaster in June) and a couple of hundred bees. I've put them in a small nuc but the wasps were entering again as I left. I should have acted much sooner. The colony was much stronger eight weeks ago when I treated for varroa. Presumably defensive traits of the workers are inherited from both parents.

Most of the nadired shallows were empty, having been fairly full six weeks ago. The stores have been moved up into the BB, also robbed I guess. Previous years I have left the shallows below the BB over winter, believing it shields the bees from draughts. I do not normally like moving boxes around at this time of year.

Lest you all think this is a tale of total incompetance I stress that this wasp invasion of most of my hives is something new . My nadiring practice hitherto has served me well. My two out apiaries (four hives) are doing well.

 

[Swarm]

It sounds to me that your colonies were not as strong as you thought. I had a very small nuc hammered by wasps but they failed to gain access to any of the others. Like you, I reduced the entrance but achieved nothing.
Should add nearly all hives are nadired.

 

[Brewer24]

Just going to put this out there and will probably receive some interesting replies.
My bee’s had an awful time this late summer with wasps. We know you’ll receive many different answers to one question, but here we go!
Tunnels didn’t work. I drilled a 12mm hole in some broom handle (I have TB’s as well as nationals) and knocked them in, and the same for some square wood. The wasps just kept wandering in like my aunt paying a visit.
Read a thread on here about glass/perspex in front of the entrances. Did this and guess what. Wasps just went in from the side and wandered in uninterrupted. To the extent that one colony were being badly affected. Stores and brood were seen coming out of the hive, taken by wasps.
Th only thing in the end that controlled the situation was closing the entrances on the national to just one bee size. Witnessed big traffic jams but that also stopped the wasps. On my TB’s. One was so weakened I (very sadly because we all know how precious Queens are) euthanised the queen and put the colonies together, in an effort to up the numbers. All my hives have been busy on the ivy so it looks to have been reasonably successful.
So basically, I’m not a great believer in tunnels and glass shields. What you need is strong colony’s !
Cheers.

 

[Amari]

It sounds to me that your colonies were not as strong as you thought. I had a very small nuc hammered by wasps but they failed to gain access to any of the others. Like you, I reduced the entrance but achieved nothing.
Should add nearly all hives are nadired.

Glad I'm not the only one to nadir as a routine - but I may have to change my practice. Yes, I agree, my colonies may not have been as strong as I thought - but they all produce well in the spring. That's beekeeping...

 

[Amari]

The wasps just kept wandering in like my aunt paying a visit.
Cheers.

What a delightful analogy!

 

[derekm]

Doesn't prove it either.

That the invalidity of a counter argument proves the validity of the original argument is not my assertion but an insinuation of your own.
Keep your logical fallacies to your self and dont project them on others.

 

[Boston Bees]

Read a thread on here about glass/perspex in front of the entrances. Did this and guess what. Wasps just went in from the side and wandered in uninterrupted.

Yes, I have found this too. In fact the wasps worked it out far quicker than the bees. Wasps, I have concluded, especially when motivated by hunger in autumn, are highly intelligent in terms of getting into hives - more so than the bees that live in the hive in fact. This includes getting round all measures I have so far seen listed on this thread (and others).

The only thing that stops wasps getting into a hive, IMHO, is a strong guard of bees on the entrance (which of course needs to be narrow enough for them to actually guard). As soon as you don't have that guard force, they will be in, regardless of how complicated the entrance structure is.

I completely agree though that the closer the entrance is to the brood nest, the more likely it is that guards will be present. This is one reason I don't personally nadir, though I get the same trouble in my double-height nuc boxes when the bees move up into the upper box (only with weaker colonies though).

 

[youngyoungs]

Like most beekeepers I have this issue most years. From a timing viewpoint I don't tend to nadir any supers until mostly the wasps are done.

My routine solution is to use drawing pins to fix a mouse guard to the front of the hive covering the entrance and making sure there are no gaps that the bees or wasps can squeeze past. To make life harder for the wasps, I cover the majority of the holes with insulation tape and leave 2 or 3 open for the bees to guard. This works pretty well for most years. I leave this on all winter.

Where the wasps are really determined I've also used the plastic tunnel approach, on top of the reduced mouse guard. Again forcing the wasps to work really hard to get into the hive. Seems to work ok, or rather forces the wasps to look elsewhere.

Sometimes the wasps can be relentless, and will chew through feeders on top of nucs to access the syrup. To stop this I cover the feeder sides completely with duct tape. The combination of tape with its associated glue seems to put them off.

In the face of a really determined wasp attack, moving the hive is the only other approach I've used, and not always successful.

I'm always looking for other solutions. I don't see why I should be feeding them as well as my bees!

 

[Katherine]

It's interesting that it's on a warm way hive. I have a few wasps going into the UFE on my long hive which of course is the warm way. They are just a few desperate stragglers and are not a problem to the hive.
Interestingly whilst at RHS Wisley yesterday there were a few bees around but the wasps were all over the camellias.

Wasps and Hornets still very active this year, seem to be attracted to camellia. The autumn flowering ones are in full flower at the moment and I think are a useful lure away from my bees. At least I hope so. There are Asian Hornets around too, so I'm going to reduce my entrance to 6mm. Its worrying nonetheless.

 

[BugsInABox]

Wasps, I have concluded, especially when motivated by hunger in autumn, are highly intelligent in terms of getting into hives - more so than the bees that live in the hive in fact.

I think I read at some point over the years that this is generally true of carnivore and prey - bless them.

 

[Amari]

Wasps and Hornets still very active this year, seem to be attracted to camellia. The autumn flowering ones are in full flower at the moment and I think are a useful lure away from my bees. At least I hope so. There are Asian Hornets around too, so I'm going to reduce my entrance to 6mm. Its worrying nonetheless.

Where are you based?

 

[John Taylor]

I am a first year bee keeper here is rural Staffordshire. I am also a DIY carpenter and so decided to build my own standard National hives. I read a lot about the subject beforehand and watched countless hours of videos and decided after encouragement from an established friendly BK to get practical. My hives have OMF and gabled roof and all have direct access to the BB using "Intrances" which you will probably know about? Despite there being plenty of wasps and hornets the use of Intrance has proved to have been a good investment, I have watched the entrances and wasps pop their heads in but come straight back out, I have only found two wasps inside my hives during the whole season. It is not a cheap solution but in my view a worthwhile one.

 

[gmonag]

As a hobbyist and DIYer, I think making my own equipment is one of the joys of beekeeping.

 

[John Taylor]

I fully agree Greg but the timber sizes and lack of availability of deep boards is a pain. I have used best quality ply for the BBs but I am going to glue up timber next time around. Making Langstroth style would be a whole lot easier than National?

 

[Brewer24]

Whats an “intrance” as I make my own hive equipment?
Any pictures?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Whats an “intrance” as I make my own hive equipment?
Any pictures?

https://www.honeybeesuite.com/the-upstairs-downstairs-intrance-better-hive-access/
And here

https://www.bee.watch/upstairs-downstairs-kit/