Unconfirmed AFB N Devon

[BBG]

According to BeeBase, so far, it's EFB

And it's 12 units.

Rumour has it, cases are increasing at location and elsewhere, if Hartland pops up on the Beebase map, it's a definite spread.

I also notice there are other diagnoses at linked locations where I know people live in that area who visit this place regularly and may have returned home with units or infected their own bees after visits.

------

Beebase records EFB popping up at outer locations during May and June and now flourishing at the mother-load.

 

[BBG]

DanBee:
"Since it gives good detail in the context of the UK inspection service and UK legislation controlling treatments, it's always the first reference I'd recommend." (Best you read these things in future!!)

AND

"But being American one of the treatments they advocate involves antibiotics. It is legal in America, but not here in the UK. It is a short-sighted treatment as it suppresses the causative organism, rather than destroying it.

Much more relevant information is available here, from the National Bee Unit."

From the National Bee Unit:

"Control
There are three options available to the beekeeper in the UK who has colonies infected with EFB;

1) The colonies may be treated with the shook swarm husbandry method. In trials conducted by the National Bee Unit showed that Shook swarm is more successful than OTC for the control of EFB in England and Wales. In the Spring following treatment, shaken colonies were three times less likely to test positive for M. plutonius. This finding appears logical since OTC treatment does not remove the etiological agent present in the hive. In contrast, the Shook swarm method provides the bees with M. plutonius-free material. In addition, OTC treated colonies were five times more likely to show recurrence of EFB the following year than Shook swarm treated colonies. A full copy of the project report is also available.

2) The colonies may be treated with the antibiotic oxytetracycline (OTC, as the formulation Terramycin®).

3) The colonies may be destroyed, as for AFB. This will be carried out if the colony is too small for other treatment methods, is too heavily infected to respond to treatment, or at the beekeepers request."

How's your foot

Looks like back to school for you m'lad or should I say Master Beek NDB?


Ref:

https://secure.fera.defra.gov.uk/beebase/index.cfm?pageid=89

 

[mbc]

DanBee:
"Since it gives good detail in the context of the UK inspection service and UK legislation controlling treatments, it's always the first reference I'd recommend." (Best you read these things in future!!)

AND

"But being American one of the treatments they advocate involves antibiotics. It is legal in America, but not here in the UK. It is a short-sighted treatment as it suppresses the causative organism, rather than destroying it.

Much more relevant information is available here, from the National Bee Unit."

From the National Bee Unit:

"Control
There are three options available to the beekeeper in the UK who has colonies infected with EFB;

1) The colonies may be treated with the shook swarm husbandry method. In trials conducted by the National Bee Unit showed that Shook swarm is more successful than OTC for the control of EFB in England and Wales. In the Spring following treatment, shaken colonies were three times less likely to test positive for M. plutonius. This finding appears logical since OTC treatment does not remove the etiological agent present in the hive. In contrast, the Shook swarm method provides the bees with M. plutonius-free material. In addition, OTC treated colonies were five times more likely to show recurrence of EFB the following year than Shook swarm treated colonies. A full copy of the project report is also available.

2) The colonies may be treated with the antibiotic oxytetracycline (OTC, as the formulation Terramycin®).

3) The colonies may be destroyed, as for AFB. This will be carried out if the colony is too small for other treatment methods, is too heavily infected to respond to treatment, or at the beekeepers request."

How's your foot

Looks like back to school for you m'lad or should I say Master Beek NDB?


Ref:

https://secure.fera.defra.gov.uk/beebase/index.cfm?pageid=89

BBG, your own thread title suggests you should be looking at a different section of that document.

 

[BBG]

BBG, your own thread title suggests you should be looking at a different section of that document.

Yes, but, if you look up the page where I said:

"According to BeeBase, so far, it's EFB"

and it's the anti-biotic use that is disputed.

Though to be fair the man did refer to AFB so an apology from me through the cloud of antibiotic use is in order.

Apologies Danbee.

No offence intended and hope none taken.


-----

Mbc thanks again for the heads up.

 

[hallshoney]

EFB north devon

spoke to two beeks in hartland area this morning no one has heard about this. looked on beebase brood disease map they show around 12 inspections taken place this year and all was well im confused to where this info has come from and maybe it would be sensible not to post rumor or gossip until facts have been established on such an important subject

 

[BBG]

As I already said It has been confirmed as EFB - warnings have been issued, sent by the NBU to apiaries within 3Km of the outbreak.

We know people travel to the infected site from all over N Devon and including Hartland, which is why I mentioned it.

It wasn't a rumour, we don't deal in rumours or gossip, it was an unconfirmed report from a very reliable source. We and others were very glad to get that, which is why I passed it on. Forewarned is forearmed

I said:

"if Hartland pops up on the Beebase map, it's a definite spread." There is good cause for me saying that - if you don't like it - tough!

If it makes a difference to others, it's worth upsetting anybody else though why people want to keep little secrets on important issues seems very odd to me when beekeepers spend much time discussing each other, how many hives somebody has, how much honey a person has had this year/last year and all the other boring minutiae that goes on.

Beebase screenshot below: (Note Dulverton is Somerset so they don't always get the counties right)

Newton Tracey Nr Barnstaple N Devon???

 

[Into the lions den]

That BeeBase chart, of the EFB outbreaks, should be treated with great caution, unless you have maps to cross reference the grid box to. Often the place name given is not anywhere near the grid box, as they seem to use a variety of methods for place name linking, and in some cases the place name given is the beekeepers home base, not the apiary location, but the grid box and county are correct for the actual find, and in other cases they ARE place specific. One of the Scottish ones (not ours) the place name is simply given as 'commercial'. One of mines in particular gave me the heads up on this last year when minor positive was listed in one county, grid referenced correctly, but the location mentioned was our home base 80 miles away.

 

[BBG]

Agree ITLD - are they deliberate in this or careless.

Makes sense not to centre the square; for the same reasons, we haven't divulged the exact infection hotspot.

NBU email warnings have been sent so absolutely no doubt.

Problem is, there will no doubt be more from that area due to movements and other failures.

 

[alanf]

That BeeBase chart, of the EFB outbreaks, should be treated with great caution, unless you have maps to cross reference the grid box to.

Not directly related to bees but a handy tool to check where the OS 10km square boundaries are is at

http://www.the-soc.org.uk/site-finder.htm

It's actually the Scottish Ornithologists Club site and intended for bird recording but it works for the whole UK. If you put the grid reference (SS52 for instance) in the box and hit go it draws the 10km square on a Google map where you can zoom in, scroll around and see how close you are to reported squares.

 

[BBG]

Alanf

Very good link and with a little knowledge and magnification you can find the hotspot in the corner of a field - sporting less hives than now - due to older photograph.

Thanks.

 

[Into the lions den]

Agree ITLD - are they deliberate in this or careless.
Bit of both I suspect.

Makes sense not to centre the square; for the same reasons, we haven't divulged the exact infection hotspot.

I think it is wise not to give the exact location, as the possibility of both unwarranted attacks on hives and ostracising of individuals can take place. Works fine up to a point, however in a case such as ourselves, when we get an alert, it is easy to draw the circles round the several locations that we are notified to be at risk and pretty well pinpoint the location of the find. In such cases the relative secrecy to protect the unfortunate victim could fall down in the wrong hands.

NBU email warnings have been sent so absolutely no doubt.

Problem is, there will no doubt be more from that area due to movements and other failures.

Having been through the very severe outbreak up here in 2009 and its fallout which will rumble on for some years yet, I am of the firm opinion that there is too much fear and paranoia about these issues. We have pretty well got on top of it (though it will be years before it is entirely gone from our area, if indeed ever) with fairly simple methods and some management changes, so that this year our total finds are only 4 single colonies, and given that it was over 150 in 2009, it is a disease that is not the end of the world. Be sensible, be cautious, manage for the risk, and do not victimise those who are unfortunate enough to contract either of the problems. The initial infection is generally none of their fault.

Although superficially the inspectorate might seem to have scary powers they only use them if you are indulging in serious misbehaviour. We have found them to be very much our allies in this and have formed an excellent working relationship with the Scottish team. Likewise we are impressed by Charles Miller and our forum friend Meg at our Hereford/ Gloucs end, and look forward to working with them for a long time to come.

Back to your fears about infected movements etc. It does seem that transmission within an apiary is very easy and often a positive is followed up by a positive in the hive sitting next to the initial one. If you have a lot of apiaries, and equipment is not site specific then rapid spread can take place within the outfit. Site or colony specific equipment is not practical in large operations, so a massive cleansing operation was/is needed. However, importantly, apiary to apiary transfer, between unassociated groups, even if very close, seems to be a relatively infrequent occurrence. So, unless you indulge in unsafe practices, such as allowing beekeeper visits with non sterile gear involved, your risk is very small and should not detract from continued enjoyment of the craft with little to fear.

 

[BBG]

All that you have said ref:
poor hygiene, moving from apiary to apiary with contaminated equipment, movement of hives/nuclei in and out - YES!

ALL that and more! So felt it was inevitable there and after 60% losses last year this has come as no surprise only that it is a worse disease.

Spread of infection - fingers crossed but, many have attended to colonies there and left with equipment that had not been sterilised, to go back to their own colonies and those are 20 and 30 miles away in some cases ........

So put the needle at SS52 and draw a circle with a 25 or 30 mile radius for possible further cases. One and two hive owners may well feel unsettled.

At an association within EFB reach from SS52 you were not allowed to go to the next hive without first sterlising equipment and washing your hands.

They too must have their fingers tightly crossed though physical contamination from source is most unlikely.

We have upped our hygiene to the same levels but have manageable numbers of hives for ourselves while those we have others looking at also must do the same. Washing soda is cheap.

Like they used to say about soap and water.

Ref large operations - I take it you don't know what stringent requirements the dairy herds have to meet and how many man weeks the checks take a year - these are all unproductive money-wise.

We have our browser on Beebase and are hoping certain locations known to be associated don't pop up on there.

Ref inspectors - they have a job to do and we facilitate that in anyway we can.

As a matter of interest or not - an ex-Bee inspector with 40 and more years experience led these unfortunate bees and their carers while saying:

"We can get too concerned about all these diseases".

 

[BBG]

ITLD

"The initial infection is generally none of their fault."

Of course they should not be vilified or ostracised, a suspicious 'wheel' is forming, but only time will tell (we hope not).

People who have these outbreaks and have practised good husbandry and hygiene should not feel bad or be blamed.

Those haven't and don't will probably cause it again or at least the spread, within their own colonies or further afield.

The lambasting suffered by Weald Place Farm Bees on the forum last year for his EFB and other - is not present here.

 

[DanBee]

BBG - I suggest you just shut up now.

Having started this rumour, your tone was unnecessarily provocative and patronising. Despite the astounding volte-face of swapping mid-thread from AFB to EFB you still managed to criticise - at length - my correct summary of the position regarding AFB treatment in the UK, and ended with

How's your foot

Looks like back to school for you m'lad or should I say Master Beek NDB?

I don't have anything to prove - but I do object to you posting misleading information. Why do you want to pick a fight?

Though to be fair the man did refer to AFB so an apology from me through the cloud of antibiotic use is in order.

Apologies Danbee.

No offence intended and hope none taken.

"the man" referred to AFB because you started the thread talking about it.

I find neither your sarcastic apology here - nor your PM where you claimed it was "only a dig in the ribs" - sufficient for the offence your behaviour in this thread has caused.

You would be well advised to read the NBU's Foul Brood Diseases booklet from cover to cover, and to think more carefully next time you want to start either a rumour or a pissing contest.

 

[hallshoney]

with dan bee as someone in living in the area i have a good idea who it is you seem to be sniping at, and using words like motherload is sensational and unhelpful. you seem hellbent on keep driving this rubbish on. only time will tell if you are correct . i hope you are not regarding the spread but if you are then we should talk about it

 

[steve's bees]

RAB -

this raises the possibility that diseased stock, owned by beginners, is now in circulation - beginners aren't too hot on swarm control and are often persuaded to buy second-hand equipment ..............

An easy to read is here:

http://tinyurl.com/d6e8nwe

I disagree with you with this bit of your post. Why would it be beginners with diseased stock, I know of a beekeeper of at least 15 years that had EFB and he didnt know it, he wondered why his bees were not doing very well. He also reckoned his bees dont have varoa.

Also who advises beginners to buy 2nd hand equipment but experienced beekeepers. Who are the people the are selling this equipment? (generally beekeepers that that are downsizing or packing up)
Should they make sure the equipment they are selling is scortched and sterilized

 

[BBG]

Danbee

There was no volte-face.

It was an unconfirmed report of AFB, from a very reliable source that turned out to be confirmed EFB. Who cares? It was Foulbrood!! These little secrets so prized and fervently suppressed by some, can be expensive to others.

We were grateful for the warning of Foulbrood due to contemplated movements of colonies and man-power into that area that would have put the bees at risk.

There was no sarcasm, I apologised openly on the forum for my mistake and sent you a PM out of courtesy.

"or a pissing contest."

I see your vocabulary is limited and you must lapse into the vernacular; then you will better understand when I say KMA - with a (smiley), of course.



Hallshoney

"i hope you are not regarding the spread but if you are then we should talk about it "

Afterwards is too late.

I take it you have now read the correct part of Beebase.

Nothing else to say other than those warned have appreciated it and will keep an eye on Beebase live reports.

 

[BBG]

I disagree with you with this bit of your post. Why would it be beginners with diseased stock, I know of a beekeeper of at least 15 years that had EFB and he didnt know it, he wondered why his bees were not doing very well. He also reckoned his bees dont have varoa.

Also who advises beginners to buy 2nd hand equipment but experienced beekeepers. Who are the people the are selling this equipment? (generally beekeepers that that are downsizing or packing up)
Should they make sure the equipment they are selling is scortched and sterilized

Yes, extreme caution when buying second-hand equipment - YOU should ensure it is sterilised and assume it isn't.

Your beekeeper may have sold that stock to a beginner? Length of time as a beekeeper is no guarantee of disease free stock or equipment as you have just demonstrated.

Often upgrading equipment can result in second-hand on the market.

Buy new if you can, there is someone who sells excellent quality wooden hives on the forum and polystyrene is another option.

Best of luck

 

[hallshoney]

...

 

[DanBee]

It was an unconfirmed report of AFB, from a very reliable source that turned out to be confirmed EFB. Who cares? It was Foulbrood!! These little secrets so prized and fervently suppressed by some, can be expensive to others.

We care because there are significant differences in the rate and mechanism of spread, precautions to be taken, and of treatments available. Minor details to some.

You are generating far more heat than light on this matter; indeed you are confusing two different diseases and hence risk confusing those who are less familiar with them.

Please either shut up now, or think very carefully about your next post so that it adds something of value to a discussion of foulbroods.