Two queens in one hive

[Sammo]

Last autum around September, one of my hives went for supersedure. At that time, both queens were seen. I did a quick inspection on Saturday and saw both queens still present. I was surprised to see both of them again as I expected one of them to have perished by now. There were BIAS covering 10 frames. How long will both queens remain and is it likley that they will swarm when one leaves (assuming one Q doesn't kill the other)?

 

[Beesand]

I had a scenario similar to this last season finding mother and daughter living quite harmoniously. I split the hive leaving the original queen where she was and removed the daughter to another location. Unfortunately the daughter turned out to be a drone layer which left me wondering if maybe that was why the original queen had tolerated her?

 

[alanf]

Our, now retired, RBI maintained that two queens was far more frequent than many assumed. He explained it partly in that in many inspections, the beekeeper sees the queen and stops looking for another one.

 

[Sammo]

I had a scenario similar to this last season finding mother and daughter living quite harmoniously. I split the hive leaving the original queen where she was and removed the daughter to another location. Unfortunately the daughter turned out to be a drone layer which left me wondering if maybe that was why the original queen had tolerated her?

I've thought about the drone layer issue - yes this is also possible but there wasn't much drone brood present. Will keep an eye out next time.

Our, now retired, RBI maintained that two queens was far more frequent than many assumed. He explained it partly in that in many inspections, the beekeeper sees the queen and stops looking for another one.

 

[itma]

Last autum around September, one of my hives went for supersedure. At that time, both queens were seen. I did a quick inspection on Saturday and saw both queens still present. I was surprised to see both of them again as I expected one of them to have perished by now. There were BIAS covering 10 frames. How long will both queens remain and is it likley that they will swarm when one leaves (assuming one Q doesn't kill the other)?

I hope this National isn't on single brood ... because that sounds kinda full.

Supercedure is a desirable trait, and you should aim to get some more queens from this genetic line. (And try very hard to avoid losing them in a swarm...)

I've heard of one hive having mother and heir apparent daughter (both marked) in residence for most of a summer.

 

[Chris B]

Our, now retired, RBI maintained that two queens was far more frequent than many assumed. He explained it partly in that in many inspections, the beekeeper sees the queen and stops looking for another one.

I would agree and I'd go a bit further - the time of year when supercedure normally happens is after swarming season, so inspections are less frequent and there is also little need to actively look for the queen anyway. From end of July all I focus on is health and viability of brood, varroa levels, bee numbers and colony stores. I might only look at 2 or 3 frames if all those things are in order.

 

[oliver90owner]

I've thought about the drone layer issue - yes this is also possible but there wasn't much drone brood present. Will keep an eye out next time.

Thinking a bit harder might have drawn you to the idea that it is the workers in charge, not the queen(s). If either was a drone layer, she would have been outed by now. The bees are not that stupid as to tolerate that situation. After all, they initiated the supercedure for a good reason, in the first place.

 

[drstitson]

nice 2 queen pics

couple of nice snaps here of mother and daughter wandering on same frame at first inspection post winter.

 

[Tom Bick]

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=26811

This photo in the thread was from a friends apiary last year and we spotted this on three occasions in different hives. The first time was pritty exciting and he is yet to inspect to see what's what in the hives this year.

 

[drstitson]

sorry missing pics

as per subject - didn't notice tiffs weren't acceptable.

 

[BILL.HEARD]

I would agree and I'd go a bit further - the time of year when supercedure normally happens is after swarming season, so inspections are less frequent and there is also little need to actively look for the queen anyway. From end of July all I focus on is health and viability of brood, varroa levels, bee numbers and colony stores. I might only look at 2 or 3 frames if all those things are in order.