Triangular Bee Escape Question

[Bluenoser]

Can you use a triangular bee escape for a 1st year double brood hive (2 deeps) to remove most of the bees in the top brood box by putting it between the brood boxes, even though if the queen happens to be in the top box , some will probably be clustered around her, or will all the bees stay because their is some brood and possible the queen or will most of the bees go down except for a cluster around the queen. Want to remove a couple of frames of honey and curious about whether a triangular bee escape can be used this way.

 

[Erichalfbee]

No. You'll probably find the all the bees still there
Just shake the bees off the frames and take them away, replace them with some drawn comb.

 

[Speybee]

Why do you want to disturb the Brood nest?.....especially with winter coming up.
From your post I understand you want to take away some capped honey stores from the brood nest, which to my mind is a bit of a ‘No No’, as this is part of their winter larder.
I would always take away capped honey away, from above the queen excluder, never from the brood nest, but I’m sure other beeks will have a different point of view as to whether it is fine to remove stores from the brood nest with winter approaching.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Why do you want to disturb the Brood nest?.....especially with winter coming up.
From your post I understand you want to take away some capped honey stores from the brood nest, which to my mind is a bit of a ‘No No’, as this is part of their winter larder.
I would always take away capped honey away, from above the queen excluder, never from the brood nest, but I’m sure other beeks will have a different point of view as to whether it is fine to remove stores from the brood nest with winter approaching.

Again, incomplete information which leads to speculation. Who knows what else is there? Bluenoser might be a beginner dying for his first bit of honey. A double Lang is a huge space. Maybe they will be overwintering in one box? Maybe he will tell us more?

 

[Speybee]

Again, incomplete information which leads to speculation. Who knows what else is there? Bluenoser might be a beginner dying for his first bit of honey. A double Lang is a huge space. Maybe they will be overwintering in one box? Maybe he will tell us more?

I suppose if you don’t speculate you don’t accumulate
For a complete beginner I would have left the brood nest alone, seeing the queen is in the upper brood box of the brood nest, with bees clustering around her( don’t want to accidentally damage her) and let him concentrate, on getting this colony safely through the winter with adequate stores seeing his hive is a Langstroth.....and honey next season.

 

[Murox]

Whats the weather forecast for Ontario ?

 

[Speybee]

It appears the temp is pretty much like we have in our Northern climes in winter.
But Autumn appears better than us, up here
the average September is High 22C low 14C
the average October is High 15C low 8C

Winter is on a par with ourselves though
the average November is High 8C low2C
the average December is High 3C low -3C
the average January is High 0C low -7C
The mercury drops further for prolonged periods in February and March

But far better Spring and Summer temperatures than us.

 

[Bluenoser]

Thanks for the replies. Yes, I'm a beginner. Today it's sunny and 15. I have started feeding 2:1 sugar for the bees over the past weekend. With winter coming I hope to leave 70-80lbs of honey for the bees. Just wanted to take a couple of frames of honey without brood before the weather changes too much and have the bees replace it with the sugar syrup. I made it a double brood chamber mainly because no matter what I tried, I couldn't get the bees to cross thru the queen excluder, so I took it out. Used the triangular bee escape for my other hive (single brood chamber) for a couple frames of honey. Both hives were nucs in June, so they are still growing and both didn't produce any surplus honey.

 

[Bluenoser]

I will be overwintering in the 2 deeps for both hives. I put a 2" shim above the upper deep with paper and sugar directly on the frames, then inner-cover, then a Vivaldi box (a homemade version with ventilation holes w/plugs) and paper with sugar on it directly on the upper deep frames in the shim. I'll put burlap to absorb moisture in the Vivaldi box and check/change if needed throughout winter during warmer then normal days, which can get chilly in January. Really, just wanted to get a couple of frames of honey to compare to my other hive which is located at a different place.

 

[Murox]

It's normal that the first year/season of a hive is all about getting it established as a viable unit - i.e. getting enough foundation drawn and stores built up to survive the winter. You say you are on double brood, the question in my mind is are all the frames fully drawn yet? are you running deeps or using mediums? either way it's a lot of comb to be drawn, or do you already have spare drawn comb? I would suggest that you keep feeding plenty of 2:1 syrup until they stop taking it (and think about treating for varroa now). If you only have the lower box full of fully drawn comb now, it might be preferable to think about wintering on one fully stocked box or dummying down the top box (reducing the numbers of frames) with suitable insulating material. Any extra sugar/fondant/or candy ought to be placed directly onto the top bars within a shim as you said.

 

[Bluenoser]

It's normal that the first year/season of a hive is all about getting it established as a viable unit - i.e. getting enough foundation drawn and stores built up to survive the winter. You say you are on double brood, the question in my mind is are all the frames fully drawn yet? are you running deeps or using mediums? either way it's a lot of comb to be drawn, or do you already have spare drawn comb? I would suggest that you keep feeding plenty of 2:1 syrup until they stop taking it (and think about treating for varroa now). If you only have the lower box full of fully drawn comb now, it might be preferable to think about wintering on one fully stocked box or dummying down the top box (reducing the numbers of frames) with suitable insulating material. Any extra sugar/fondant/or candy ought to be placed directly onto the top bars within a shim as you said.

Thanks again for the reply. The upper brood box is packed with Honey. Before I started feeding, they were filling from the upper box to the lower box during the cool nights we have had lately. If I take a couple of honey frames, will they take syrup to replace the frames and then stop taking the feed once everything is full?

 

[Speybee]

It's normal that the first year/season of a hive is all about getting it established as a viable unit - i.e. getting enough foundation drawn and stores built up to survive the winter. You say you are on double brood, the question in my mind is are all the frames fully drawn yet? are you running deeps or using mediums? either way it's a lot of comb to be drawn, or do you already have spare drawn comb? I would suggest that you keep feeding plenty of 2:1 syrup until they stop taking it (and think about treating for varroa now). If you only have the lower box full of fully drawn comb now, it might be preferable to think about wintering on one fully stocked box or dummying down the top box (reducing the numbers of frames) with suitable insulating material. Any extra sugar/fondant/or candy ought to be placed directly onto the top bars within a shim as you said.

Sounds like Bluenose is on a double brood nest from first post, as I understood from his initial description, that queen may up on upper deep box with clustering bees around her.
Also no mention of using a queen excluder which made me think his 2 deep brood boxes are his brood nest.
But he’s going the right direction if he follows your advice

 

[Erichalfbee]

I will be overwintering in the 2 deeps for both hives. I put a 2" shim above the upper deep with paper and sugar directly on the frames, then inner-cover, then a Vivaldi box (a homemade version with ventilation holes w/plugs) and paper with sugar on it directly on the upper deep frames in the shim. I'll put burlap to absorb moisture in the Vivaldi box and check/change if needed throughout winter during warmer then normal days, which can get chilly in January. Really, just wanted to get a couple of frames of honey to compare to my other hive which is located at a different place.

I know moisture boards are popular in your neck of the woods but does anybody try to overwinter their bees properly insulated without top ventilation? Like this?

 

[Murox]

Thanks again for the reply. The upper brood box is packed with Honey. Before I started feeding, they were filling from the upper box to the lower box during the cool nights we have had lately. If I take a couple of honey frames, will they take syrup to replace the frames and then stop taking the feed once everything is full?

Ok so they were moving their stores up - you could just pull one outside frame from the top box then; just carefully shake any bees off. Replace the frames and feed till they stop taking it - weather will dictate that probably.

 

[Bluenoser]

Ok so they were moving their stores up - you could just pull one outside frame from the top box then; just carefully shake any bees off. Replace the frames and feed till they stop taking it - weather will dictate that probably.

Thank-you Murox. I will try that for the outside frames.

 

[Bluenoser]

I know moisture boards are popular in your neck of the woods but does anybody try to overwinter their bees properly insulated without top ventilation? Like this? View attachment 22119

Very similar. Last year.

 

[Erichalfbee]

How did they fare?

 

[Swarm]

Nice little dog

 

[Bluenoser]

How did they fare?

The one on the left didn't make it. I had an upper exit hole and foam inside outer cover and insulated around, but I believe the moisture was too high in the hive and they got wet because of not enough ventilation. I was more worried about the cold and underestimated the amount of heat the bees generate. This year I will use a 2" shim, then Vivaldi box (with burlap to absorb moisture) and put sugar on paper directly on the frames in the 2" shim. My friends shantytown on the right made it, but he heats his during winter and used cedar chips to absorb moisture.

 

[Erichalfbee]

The one on the left didn't make it. I had an upper exit hole and foam inside outer cover and insulated around, but I believe the moisture was too high in the hive and they got wet because of not enough ventilation. I was more worried about the cold and underestimated the amount of heat the bees generate. This year I will use a 2" shim, then Vivaldi box (with burlap to absorb moisture) and put sugar on paper directly on the frames in the 2" shim. My friends shantytown on the right made it, but he heats his during winter and used cedar chips to absorb moisture.

Maybe it might be worth sending Mike Palmer a message to see how he overwinters in Vermont?