Transfer colony from National to TBH

[JWF]

Hi,

I am giving a colony to a friend who has a top bar hive. I am planning on doing the following.

1. Place donor colony on final location of TBH
2. Three days later, move donor hive to one side and place TBH in location, with entrance roughly in the same place
3. Allow the flying bees to vacate the donor hive and go into the TBH
4. Shake bees off frames into the TBH
5. Cut out brood and stores to the correct dimensions, and secure to top bars


My question is - what is the best way to secure the cut out comb onto the top bars? I have used rubber bands on nat frames but I don't think they will work on top bars. Would wire work, wrapped over the top of the bar and down under the comb?

Or is there an easier way.

Thanks in advance

 

[Hivemaker.]

Screw national frame top bars holding the comb to the top bars of the top bar hive, cut around the comb sides plus bottom of the national frame, remove side bars and bottom bars and trim the sides of the combs to fit if needed.

 

[madasafish]

Screw national top bars holding the comb to the top bars of the top bar hive, cut around the comb sides plus bottom of the national frame, remove side bars and bottom bars and trim the sides of the combs to fit if needed.

Yes .. that is the method I used in 2010 (!)

I used a pair of wood loppers to cut through the side bars..and wire cutters for the frame wires(if any)... Messy - do it on top of newspaper.

 

[Fritillary]

If doing a lot of screwing together on site isn't feasible, you can use small cable ties to attach the two kinds of top bars together. I found also it was useful to use spacers on the ends of National top bars, if they are narrower than the TBH ones, so that once in place, there isn't a space left underneath between adjacent bars big enough for bees (or wasps).

 

[JWF]

Great ideas - thanks!

 

[JWF]

Just to update this thread - we successfully transferred the colony into the top bar hive this afternoon, screwing cut down frames onto the top bars as described above. The loppers were crude but effective and certainly less damaging than attempting to use a saw. I'm glad we had two people to manipulate the frames as it certainly made things far easier, as did having a convenient garage to do the cutting down in without being molested by bees.

After a little confusion as to where the entrance was, the colony seems to have settled in quickly.

Thanks for the advice everyone. Sadly I forgot to take any pictures until we'd finished!

 

[Erichalfbee]

Am I being over sensitive but isn't this a horrid thing to do to bees at this time of year?

 

[drex]

If needs must, then they still have time to get it sorted out before winter. I admit I did such a " chop and crop" in springtime, using loppers and screws. Shook bees off each frame in turn, into the TBH , then did the mod of the frames. Less disruption than a shook swarm, as they still have their own brood and stores ( or most of it) . My bees soon settled .

 

[madasafish]

Am I being over sensitive but isn't this a horrid thing to do to bees at this time of year?

The alternative is a shook swarm which is a LOT worse.

 

[Erichalfbee]

The alternative is a shook swarm which is a LOT worse.

You can't shook swarm at this time of year.....that's madness.
But you can in late spring but NOT waste the brood. Better still a package or a swarm
My point was that if you wanted to keep bees in a TBH preparation was key, even if it meant waiting for a better opportunity.

 

[olriley]

Well done. I'm thinking of doing this the other way round in a few weeks... my old TBH into Rose frames... will share story of success or otherwise!

 

[Erichalfbee]

Well done. I'm thinking of doing this the other way round in a few weeks... my old TBH into Rose frames... will share story of success or otherwise!

Again. Isn't this much better done in Spring when the colony is growing not when the bees have already started to organise their winter nest?

Ahhhhhh I see from another post that is what you are doing

Hi, I have got a few hives on the Rose system and recently joined East Herts BKA as we moved to the area.



Plan for next year
I will transfer the TBH colony into a Rose and move all the hives to my home apiary.

So not this year and apologies from me

 

[REDWOOD]

Simple solution would be to give the friend a National hive and use the TBH as fire wood

 

[olriley]

No need to apologise. It's an excellent question and I am not sure when I will do it actually. Leaving it to spring to do the transfer means it will be the last hive in my (very) 'out' apiary in Yorkshire (family's place), as there's no way I'm transporting the TBH (nightmare to move) 200 miles, just to then destroy it. If I do the transfer now, I can bring it home with the other Rose colonies, and can boost it with stores or brood from others if needed. It's quite a weak colony.

 

[olriley]

Simple solution would be to give the friend a National hive and use the TBH as fire wood

Having had one for five years, I'd have to agree

Joking aside, I will write more about mt TBH experience at some point, I think if they're done right they're great if people want certain things out of beekeeping. I've made the decision to move to a framed hive system, speaks for its self I suppose.

 

[Adam Bee]

Just to spread the information in case someone else comes across this thread about changing hive styles. I ran across this the other day, and it seems to make sense:

kootenaybeenews.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/langnuc-into-tbh.pdf

I can't post proper links or images yet.. :-/

But the basic idea is to add the standard frames parallel to the body of the TBH until they are established, then run bars behind as expected. Let the hive settle and establish. Move the queen to the side with correct bars after a while w/ an excluder, then slowly migrate the brood to the correct bars and retire the frames.

 

[madasafish]

Just to spread the information in case someone else comes across this thread about changing hive styles. I ran across this the other day, and it seems to make sense:

kootenaybeenews.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/langnuc-into-tbh.pdf

I can't post proper links or images yet.. :-/

But the basic idea is to add the standard frames parallel to the body of the TBH until they are established, then run bars behind as expected. Let the hive settle and establish. Move the queen to the side with correct bars after a while w/ an excluder, then slowly migrate the brood to the correct bars and retire the frames.

That is just asking for trouble. Bees in a TBH teed to run combs across several bars at times - called cross combing...The setup described encourages that.. Been there - very devils to sort out...

 

[Ian123]

That is just asking for trouble. Bees in a TBH teed to run combs across several bars at times - called cross combing...The setup described encourages that.. Been there - very devils to sort out...

That’s odd the whole idea with a top bar hive is the bees run comb with the bar allowing the beek to inspect. Cross combing is when the bees have their own ideas

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

That’s odd the whole idea with a top bar hive is the bees run comb with the bar allowing the beek to inspect. Cross combing is when the bees have their own ideas

The whole idea of a top bar hive is....
To use it in Africa - where it was designed for.

 

[madasafish]

That’s odd the whole idea with a top bar hive is the bees run comb with the bar allowing the beek to inspect. Cross combing is when the bees have their own ideas

occasionally - don't ask me why - the bees run comb the length of the hive touching each bar as they go. Makes inspection impossible and sorting it out is a messy business. Only had it once..

Inspecting a normal TBH is bad enough..