Too late for a/s

[Gower]

Hi all

I have a problem whereby a new hive created in May from A/S is still throwing out around 3 fully charged swarm cells every time I inspect, which I duly cut out. The colony is headed by a Welsh black Q on 14x12 frames, of which 5 are fully covered with worker brood in all stages, and another 4 frames with stores - pollen and honey. The remaining frames are drawn and undrawn foundation, as i have already taken a full frame of brood and transferred it into a 14x12 nuc which is a bit slow at the moment.

I imagine it may be too late to do another split - should i just keep on cutting out the QCs?

many thanks!

 

[thedeaddiplomat]

I am no expert, and will always defer to those with greater experience.

But why not do an AS and then reunite in a few weeks?

 

[Hivemaker.]

Sounds more like they are trying to supecede the queen.

 

[Gower]

Sounds more like they are trying to supecede the queen.

That thought crossed my mind also, but i thought it strange because she's a young 2011 Q and is a prolific layer as far as i have observed.

 

[Nightynight]

A/S/split into 2 nucs and over winter them?

 

[oliver90owner]

around 3 fully charged swarm cells every time I inspect

Yes, could agree with Hivemaker. Could you describe the position and form of these cells? Perhaps you are unaware there is usually a difference between swarm and supercedure cells.

RAB

 

[Winker]

Hi all

is still throwing out around 3 fully charged swarm cells every time I inspect,

I imagine it may be too late to do another split - should i just keep on cutting out the QCs?

many thanks!

If they were wanting to swarm you would have more than 3 QC. As Hivemaker says, it looks more like they want to supecede the queen. try splitting them then reunite them latter

 

[Gower]

the cells are always at the very bottom of the frame, usually in a central position on the frame bottom. I 've not had any in the central or upper region of the frames which I assumed would have been indication of supercedure cells?

 

[susbees]

If they were wanting to swarm you would have more than 3 QC. As Hivemaker says, it looks more like they want to supecede the queen. try splitting them then reunite them latter

Blacks produce fewer swarm cells. Haven't found more than half a dozen cells in a hive here all season and ours are a local/black mix. The hives that are thinking of supercedure here (both with black queens mated away) are making just the one cell.

 

[Gower]

hi Susbees

are your Welsh blacks also producing swarm/ supercedure cells at this time?

many thanks

 

[Mike a]

I would split them and put the queen into a nuc in case she may be close to failing. If you see more queencells in the nuc within a week then you'll know if they are trying to supersede her or just intent on swarming. Personally I agree with the others they are trying to supersede.

When you did the split back in May are we talking about the old queen or the new 2011 queens colony?

 

[snoop]

I have had 2 of my 2011 queens mated end of may , replaces by their colonies this year . Both were strong on 2 brood boxes & plenty of room for laying & stores..

 

[Gower]

I would split them and put the queen into a nuc in case she may be close to failing. If you see more queencells in the nuc within a week then you'll know if they are trying to supersede her or just intent on swarming. Personally I agree with the others they are trying to supersede.

When you did the split back in May are we talking about the old queen or the new 2011 queens colony?

sorry i should have been bit clearer - i'm talking about the new Q's colony at the moment. She's a May 2011 Q and is still laying like crazy.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Gower - lot of swarms still in your area at the moment inspected one hive in the association apiary at Penllergaer on Sunday and they were building queen cells everywhere - some with eggs in so we did a split, one of the beginners was hoping for some bees to start off so he had the old 2011 queen in a nuc

 

[enrico]

Blacks produce fewer swarm cells. Haven't found more than half a dozen cells in a hive here all season and ours are a local/black mix. The hives that are thinking of supercedure here (both with black queens mated away) are making just the one cell.

I wish mine did. My black welsh bees swarm at every opportunity and throw casts like dandelion seeds!!! But they work really hard collecting so I forgive them!!!

 

[Poly Hive]

Is this colony expanding as it sounds as if it is treading water.

If so, then you are thwarting their desire to change queens. Never mind your thoughts on her ability or quality they seem to disagree.

I would put her in a nuc and let them get on with it before winter arrives.

PH

 

[Gower]

hi Polyhive

yes its still expanding and i've taken frames of brood off already and moved them to a smaller nuc. like i say she's laying like mad and i'm hoping that a few new frames of undrawn foundation will give additional work for the colony and more room to lay. i've had a super on the hive for about 6 weeks but there is next to no honey - if any at all - in it.

i'm on hols the last 2 weeks of August so am hoping to resolve this before then. i think the consensus is to A/S and reunite to over-winter. if it was earlier in the season i'd try splitting into another nuc. I'm more than happy with the lineage of the Q as the parent colony is doing very well and i'm on target for around 4 supers to extract this season.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I wish mine did. My black welsh bees swarm at every opportunity and throw casts like dandelion seeds!!! But they work really hard collecting so I forgive them!!!

enrico, how many times is too many would you say?
I have ...or should I say had (she's in the freezer for my grandson to take to school) a 210 queen that swarmed twice this year and was about to again so I'm replacing her.