To feed or not to feed?

[BeeBo]

I'm getting a little freaked by all the talk of starving/dying bees.

I looked inside the hive about four weeks ago when we had a couple of warm days and the bees were flying and foraging. They seemed to have lots of stores in the top super (I have a WBC with a brood and a half, so the super is the half). Since then it has been cold and only seen the odd bee flapping around quite feebly.
It's wet and cold I'm not keen to open them up to have another look and hefting is an art I have yet to learn. It feels pretty damned heavy to me when it's empty!
Should I just put some fondant on the top of the super anyway? I would have to put on a spacer as its bottom bee space. Worried this might make them cold?

I assume ambrosia is fondant?

I have joined the local association but finding it hard to find a mentor.

Would appreciate some guidance, please.

 

[knotty]

Feed

Hi BeeBo,

Into my third year of this lark but here are my thoughts.

If your worried, feed them. I'm still struggling with the hefting thing. I might invest in some scales

Due to the cold weather fondant (like a sugary paste you get on iced buns etc) Ambrosia is the safest option. This means the bees don't have to waste energy evaporating the water to make use of it. Liquid feeds at this time of year could cause dissentry. There are other commercial preparations but all seem to be the same stuff to me. Check out the other forum links for bakers fondant.

WRT putting fondant on the hive, if your using Abrosia fondant, just score the plastic in a cross with a sharp knife and put over the crown board feeder hole. You can make some space above by using a super. As the crown board remains in place,it shouldn't chill your bees. Replace roof!

Hope that helps and good luck. I've got my fingers and toes crossed for both my hives and they both have fondant on now due to the rubbish weather.

 

[oliver90owner]

If they don't need it, don't feed it. If they do, then clearly you must feed.

If they are brooding then they will need water. Think - honey is 18% water, fondant is 11%. Adult bees contain what they contain, larvae are increasing in volume/weight over a very short period - egg size to fully developed in around a week - and a lot of that is water! That is why bees would normally use nectar in the summer months (they don't need to collect a separate water supply)

If they run short of pollen or water they will lose all uncapped brood and possibly an amounnt of any that which is already capped. If they run short of carbohydrate, they die of starvation.

Think s bit more about the situation of losing brood. The winter bees would have fed them and now may be back on the 'shortened lifespan' mode for the summer months, which does not bode well if the colony loses more bees before brooding starts again.

There is your guidance but you are the beekeeper on the spot.

 

[Finman]

Since then it has been cold and only seen the odd bee flapping around quite feebly.
It's wet and cold I'm not keen to open them up to have another look and hefting is an art I have yet to learn..

Look again into the hive. It takes couple of seconds.

I looked my hives last week even if it was -5C. I think that I saved with that 4 hives. I put a box of crystallized honey on the light hives.


If you have a mesh floor open, you may stuck it and it saves lots of energy and food.

.

 

[beeno]

Hi Beebo,
IMHO it is good to be freaked in March over foodstores or rather the lack of it, as starvation is the major cause of dead hives this time of the year. Your hive set up, I believe I am a newbie, is one brood box with one super of food. However, the important point is what stores did they go into winter with in that brood box? Only you know if there is a possibility of it being empty. Odd bee flapping about does not sound good, but more like an emergency to me. Couple of hours sunshine at +8C they should be out. I would make my own fondant and roll it out so that it covers the whole area and place it direct on top of the bars or phone a friend for some. I will be shot down in flames, but IMHO and your inexperience you need to do a Finman take a look, but be quick and be ready to slap the fondant on so that you do not need to open hive twice. Good luck!

 

[enrico]

We all know your worries...we have all been there and still are. If you don't feed then that is a risk you take but......if your brood and a half had plenty of stores at the beginning of winter then you should not need to feed....a brood and a half of good stores WILL see them through, wether they can get to all the stores is another matter but that is one of those risks. If you have a spare hive set it up and test the weight by lifting the back, then go do the same with your real hive!
If you really think they do need food then bakers fondant is good. We are two inches of snow this morning so......, but in an EMERGENCY any food is good, sugar water, damp bag of sugar....anything. I would suggest that if your bees are flying on warm days you are ok but that is not set in stone. This is why autumn feeding is so important, the more you feed in autumn the less you agonise in spring!
E

 

[itma]

The downside of un-needed feeding is having to watch out for full-brood-box swarming. But that'd be later, when you could do things about it.

The downside of no food is colony death.

So - if you have reason for concern - feed.
But do you have reason for concern?

I'd suggest hefting just your shallow (the 'half' - you say it is on top). Crack the prop seal and just tip it a couple of mm, so you can feel how full it is.
If it feels light, feed.
If not, don't worry.

Remaining stores would much more likely be at the top than at the bottom of the brood space, so you'll be able to check by just hefting the top box.
And hefting ONLY a lighter box, it is easier to feel how full it is. I expect you even have an empty super to compare the feel with.

 

[MuswellMetro]

it is only experience that will tell you if they need feeding

lots of indicators add to your understanding...wax dropping pattern on the varroa board, were is the brood,( side middle or top) is the weight lopsided

i was told to heft and look into the feed hole and only feed when the cluster had reached the top of the frames, but with top insulation....my bees are always wondering around the top of the frames

if you are worried then add 500g of fondant (ambrosia, bakers fondant, Neopol, Nectpol or apiinvert ) over the crown board feed hole and see what happens...or even a very damp 500g small bag of sugar slashed with the hive tool

Me .well most of my hives are still feeding on stores without fondant, though i have fed one very large hive of italians 5kg off Apiinvert already...but that hive is in a sheltered winter sun trap in a copse ( next to winter OSR)

 

[BeeBo]

Thank you everyone for all your valuable advice. I'm off to the hive to have a peak and a heft of the super, armed with ambrosia just in case.
Thank you again. I'm sure it will all be obvious one day!

 

[YorkshireBees]

In my experience feeding fondant over the crownboard feeding hole, as described previously, will do no harm. All my hives have it on right now. My preferred option at this time of year is Neopol (but that is just my own choice). I find that if they need it they will take it otherwise it will still be there when I start my 1st inspections and I can remove it then. I have never seen my bees take it down and store it so no problems with filling the brood space.

I use plastic (takeaway food) contains and put 500g in and then wrap cling film over it twice and just score / punch a few holes in the top before putting it over the feed hole (inverted obviously). Around the container is a sheet over polystyrene (50mm) and then the roof over the whole lot.
Using the clear plastic containers allows me to check each hive (approx 30secs) just be removing the roof and seeing if they need more fondant.
The majority of my hives are now taking the Neopol with just 1-2 that do not appear to have touched it yet.
My guess is that there is brood in the hives and with the weather pattern at the moment there is little chance to forage and not much o forage on.

By doing this I have piece of mind and it takes me just a little time each week to check and replace any containers that are empty.

 

[beeno]

Thank you everyone for all your valuable advice. I'm off to the hive to have a peak and a heft of the super, armed with ambrosia just in case.
Thank you again. I'm sure it will all be obvious one day!

Let's know how you get on, so we can learn from your experience. Fingers X.

 

[poshpikey]

I'm newish to bees and had a very quick look a week ago because I wasn't sure about things after hefting. Took roof and crownboard off two hives, could see sealed stores at top of bars without taking any frames out. Lid back on. Happy days!

 

[itma]

... I wasn't sure about things after hefting. Took roof and crownboard off two hives, could see sealed stores at top of bars without taking any frames out. Lid back on. Happy days!

So, getting the order in soon for the see-through crownboard?

 

[Scubi]

I use plastic (takeaway food) contains and put 500g in and then wrap cling film over it twice and just score / punch a few holes in the top before putting it over the feed hole (inverted obviously.

Assuming the bees still need the fondant and are healthy (which I do), how long would you expect this much fondant to last this time of the year given the recent changeable weather conditions?
I put this same amount of fondant on a standard National (with top insulation) two weeks ago and was going to go and check on them this morning but I was reluctant to open the hive due to the poor weather we were having.
I try not to disturb them much in the winter months and plan to go along at my next opportunity but am trying to gauge the absolute longest I should leave it before doing so.

 

[poshpikey]

A lot of bees were out flying today. (Snow melted in the morning.) Could see some pollen but would there be any nectar now? gorse?

 

[user 6228]

Assuming the bees still need the fondant and are healthy (which I do), how long would you expect this much fondant to last this time of the year given the recent changeable weather conditions?
I put this same amount of fondant on a standard National (with top insulation) two weeks ago and was going to go and check on them this morning but I was reluctant to open the hive due to the poor weather we were having.
I try not to disturb them much in the winter months and plan to go along at my next opportunity but am trying to gauge the absolute longest I should leave it before doing so.

I ve got one colony that went through 1/2 kilo in 3 days. the others are ramping up very fast as well. That rate of consumption has nothing to do with being cold.