Thoughts of Change

[DrNick]

I am thinking of changing from National brood boxes to 12x14s for next year, but I have read that as a queen lays approx 2000 a day and taking into account stores, wasted space on frames etc, Commercial brood boxes would be a better size as any honey would be stored in the brood box in a 12x14, is this true?
Also we keep Carniolan and they expand at an alarming rate, far too quickly for a National, but maybe not too quickly for a commercial?
All comments welcome.

 

[Poly Hive]

2000 eggs per day every day is I personally think a nonsence.

Go through a colony with a good brood box full of sealed brood and are there 2000 empty cells to begin with? Even if there are can she waltz around the combs fast enough to find them all? I doubt it.

If she has an empty comb to lay up then yes possibly that figure is attainible but to think she can and does every day is in serious doubt.

I will say though that the Carniolians I have deinately are too strong for a single National, but saying that I don't believe there is really a bee in the UK, including AMM that will happily sit in a National.

Mine were fine in a double brood, National. But I was bleeding brood off for nucs at the same time.

I think they would do well in double Langstroth.

PH

 

[oliver90owner]

DrNick,

The nest is fairly circular on a 14 x 12. More honey will be stored on the brood, yes, but all depends on how much the nest covers. One can always reduce the frame number with dummies, or extract the honey from the frames of stores.

You only need to add an extention to your present boxes to make them (or some) into jumbos, so no real expense other than some frames and foundation to try it out.

Regards, RAB

 

[Finman]

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If you want a bigger brood area, you just let to colony space to use so much brood area as it can. You need no extra operarion, no jumbos or another thing. It makes nursing only complicate.

 

[oliver90owner]

Finman,

Yep, agreed, and also It makes nursing only complicate.

I am just not a particular fan of broods and halves. Some love them, some put up with them. I prefer to do without, if possible, but would if necessary....at a push.

Regards, RAB

 

[Somerford]

I have a 14x12 I'll be using next year to compare against my nationals. the great things will be the interchangeable supers, but I am also thinking a bigger brrod chamber could be right for the bees and myself. The thing about honey going into the brood chamber is a hoary old chesnut - you either leave it there instead of feeding, or extract it. easy peasy.

Much has been written about the egg laying capacity of a queen - but I have never seen anything written about a definite study that gives a queen a new drawn out brood frame every day to lay on - an indeed whether she can keep up with it anyway. I suspect her egg laying varies with the abundance or otherwise of nector and pollen, which would ring true as she decreases laying in the Winter.

 

[Finman]

Also we keep Carniolan and they expand at an alarming rate, far too quickly for a National, but maybe not too quickly for a commercial?.

That I do not understand. First you get a good queen and she makes his duty, it is alarming?

Italian expands exactly as fast if it has pollen in early spring.

Too quickly for national - it is only a beekeper if he has experience what to do and when.

 

[ribblesbees]

Just done a few sums

24 (hours in a day) x
60 (minutes in an hour) x
60 (Seconds in a minute) =
86400 /
2000 (rate of lay per day?) =
one egg every 43.2 seconds.

I suppose for short burst that rate would be possible but does a queen work 24 hours a day, does she not feed etc.

I would have thought 1000 consistently over a day would be more realistic.

*sits back and awaits 'discussions' to start over these figures.*

 

[JCBrum]

H Pete you have a pm

 

[hedgerow pete]

ribblesbees stop that i am the site heretic that produces out ragous state ment designed to cause out rage, just because i totaly aggree with that state ment and find it very very hard to see many queens laying that amount at all. i have measured my queens eggs with a high tec piece of card and recon she layes nearer 500 not 2,000 but i have been shot down so many times for saying it try looking on the thread about new bee hive designs for todays super bees and you will find i think its near the end someone restarted it just to say there bees lay 2,000 but wont say how they know??

so this forum is only big enough for one loone and the position is taken so stop the common sence and reality please thats my job

 

[thurrock bees]

I am thinking of changing from National brood boxes to 12x14s for next year, but I have read that as a queen lays approx 2000 a day and taking into account stores, wasted space on frames etc, Commercial brood boxes would be a better size as any honey would be stored in the brood box in a 12x14, is this true?
Also we keep Carniolan and they expand at an alarming rate, far too quickly for a National, but maybe not too quickly for a commercial?
All comments welcome.

hi Dr Nick
i have the same problem, she filled two bb in feb, and when she were on a single bb she filled all 13 frames with brood, im thinking at giving 14 x 12 a try in the spring,i feel it would be cheaper than buying comm box,frames, and wax.

 

[thurrock bees]

oh one other thing, the egg laying may be in correct, my best queen/bees/hive will have bb, q ex,and anywhere from 3-6 supers on full with bees, if i put on less then the bees hang out the entrance at night. a fellow beekeeper on here has seen it also.

 

[ribblesbees]

ribblesbees stop that i am the site heretic that produces out ragous state ment designed to cause out rage, just because i totaly aggree with that state ment and find it very very hard to see many queens laying that amount at all. i have measured my queens eggs with a high tec piece of card and recon she layes nearer 500 not 2,000 but i have been shot down so many times for saying it try looking on the thread about new bee hive designs for todays super bees and you will find i think its near the end someone restarted it just to say there bees lay 2,000 but wont say how they know??

so this forum is only big enough for one loone and the position is taken so stop the common sence and reality please thats my job

Stop being such a good teacher/role model whatever.

 

[Finman]

oh one other thing, the egg laying may be in correct, my best queen/bees/hive will have bb, q ex,and anywhere from 3-6 supers on full with bees, if i put on less then the bees hang out the entrance at night. a fellow beekeeper on here has seen it also.

Don't worry. Soon they swarm and they dont hang there.

 

[Finman]

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DrNick is not only one who has calculated eggs here. Calculations helps nothing, because when you look into the hive, then you see the brood area.

Other space of brood boxes are pollen and honey. Then queen may use half of space or 2/3 space.

Some use exlcluder so that they move all brood over the excluder and give weekly empty combs to queen to kay. Actually it has 2 boxes then.

Some start to use exluder at late summer when it is time to exctratct.

Some queen may be suoer layer . and they are not many - and next year it is average.

I cannot underxtand that foaming about double brood. You just try it and you see.

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