Thorne's news & matchsticks

[madasafish]

If cold does not kill bees- as Thornes' article claims " Cold never killed a bee colony."- why does Finman heat his hives?
Surely if insulation is bad, heating hives will be worse.

And why do Canadians and Americans in Northern climates use hive covers or even bee houses? (As do the Swiss).

As Thornes do say their expert is "in the south of the country."



Warning: POLYHIVES KILL BEES as they have too much insulation.
The rest of European Beekeepers are wrong.
And the Finns have not a clue on beekeeping in cold climates - doing it all wrong.


When all else fails, examine the facts. If a theory does not fit the facts, then the theory is wrong.

(You don't need an Honours Degree in Physics to understand simple logic)..

 

[kighill]

What is all the fuss and nonsense about matchsticks I thought the idea was to use pennies.
You get 244 pennies to a British Pound so they go a long way

 

[B+.]

What is all the fuss and nonsense about matchsticks I thought the idea was to use pennies.
You get 244 pennies to a British Pound so they go a long way

um....it was quite a while ago....but....

12 pennies in a shilling
20 shillings in a pound

that makes 240 pennies in a pound

 

[kighill]

I was trying too hard at being ironic.

Of course you could still use farthings!

 

[yeogi75]

I was trying too hard at being ironic.

Of course you could still use farthings!

now you are really going back , how much is a farthing worth as I have loades under my hives , wondered what they was for

 

[B+.]

how much is a farthing worth

Nothing.
In old money, a farthing was half of a half-penny (or a quarter of a penny).

Now, without looking it up, what does £.s.d. actually stand for? (you either know this, or, you don't)

 

[yeogi75]

Nothing.
In old money, a farthing was half of a half-penny (or a quarter of a penny).

Now, without looking it up, what does £.s.d. actually stand for? (you either know this, or, you don't)

when I was at college it was L s d but when I had to earn a living it was pounds shillings & pence,

 

[B+.]

when I was at college it was L s d but when I had to earn a living it was pounds shillings & pence,

I was still at school when we changed currency....but...did you know the answer?

 

[Bee Bumble]

how much is a farthing worth as I have loads under my hives

Used to be one Blackjack.

 

[B+.]

Used to be one Blackjack.

Every kid loved those

 

[masterBK]

I am not arguing that insulation per se is bad. The comparison between wooden hives and trees obviously shows the hives are poorer in terms of insulation. I just think it is not as important as some make out. I think maybe that a defendable cavity is just as important as its insulation properties. In the wild there won't be many alternatives to trees to provide cavities of the right volume at the right height with a small easily defended entrance. These days you are just as likely to find so called "feral" bees living in a range of man made cavities like chimneys, soffits, compost bins even post boxes with far less insulation than trees. Be interesting to see if given a choice swarms prefer to take over poly rather than wooden bait hives (other factors being equal). Honey bees originally did not live in cavities as this trait came later (Apis florea and dorsata colonies still don't tend to use cavities). A cavity in a tree at a height above ground with a small entrance not only allows better control of nest temperature in cool climates but is also more easily defended and fairly flood resistant. Apis dorsata nests at quite a height and is extremely agressive and must waste alot of energy having to maintain lots of guard bees to defend the brood and stores against predators and robbers . In a cavity less guards are required and the bees less defensive freeing up more bees to forage and collect the stores needed to get though the winter period when there is little forage available.

 

[yeogi75]

Nothing.
In old money, a farthing was half of a half-penny (or a quarter of a penny).

Now, without looking it up, what does £.s.d. actually stand for? (you either know this, or, you don't)

I knew it had something to do with Latin, but had to look it up to see what, my teacher told me to learn Latin as I was leaving school but didn't, he said a lot can be learnt from Latin as the origin of most in life

 

[B+.]

I knew it had something to do with Latin, but had to look it up to see what, my teacher told me to learn Latin as I was leaving school but didn't, he said a lot can be learnt from Latin as the origin of most in life

That is true (at least in western europe where the Roman empire ruled). Cyrillic is more relevant in the east.
Wiki has a fair description https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/£sd but this is an interesting site too http://gwydir.demon.co.uk/jo/units/money.htm

 

[MuswellMetro]

well, already had three emails from last few years beginners asking " Does removing insulation apply to the London area now or should i take it off later"
,,,,aaaaaaaaaah

 

[Fusion_power]

Why don't we just dispence with roofs and crownboards altogether just lean a sheet of corrugated iron against the hive to keep the rain off?

Farrer did this in a manner of speaking by putting screen wire around a colony with nothing but a roof to keep the rain off. They wintered successfully and were a productive colony the next year.

Bees need a lot of water, especially when they are raising brood. Where does that water come from in winter when they can't forage? Honey typically contains about 17% water. This is nowhere near enough to meet winter needs. Sugar metabolizes into water plus carbon dioxide. 1 - C6H12O6 sugar combines with 6 - O2 oxygen to produce 6 - CO2 + 6 H2O + energy released. That H2O is water which the bees need for brood rearing. What happens if the interior of the hive is too warm? The bees do not metabolize enough honey resulting in a shortage of water for brood rearing. What conditions produce too much warmth in the brood nest mid-winter? If the cluster is too large with too many bees, then the thermal efficiency restricts metabolism of honey and therefore reduces the amount of water available for brood rearing. What if the hive is too well insulated? Then the thermal efficiency does the same resulting in too little water. Do you think putting a heater in the hive would do the same thing? Yes, it has to. To get around this conundrum, either provide the bees with water in the hive during winter or else keep the thermal efficiency low enough that the bees metabolize enough honey to have water for brood rearing. What about wintering indoors? Keep the humidity about 60 to 65% and temperature about 6C all winter long and the bees will produce enough water. Do you see the issue now? Wintering in a humid climate does not as readily cause problems with moisture as it does where cool and dry conditions prevail.

I am not the originator of this information, see the articles by Mobus in the July and August 1998 issues of American Bee Journal.

 

[Finman]

If cold does not kill bees- as Thornes' article claims " Cold never killed a bee colony."- why does Finman heat his hives?
Surely if insulation is bad, heating hives will be worse.

And why do Canadians and Americans in Northern climates use hive covers or even bee houses? (As do the Swiss).

As Thornes do say their expert is "in the south of the country."



Warning: POLYHIVES KILL BEES as they have too much insulation.
The rest of European Beekeepers are wrong.
And the Finns have not a clue on beekeeping in cold climates - doing it all wrong.


When all else fails, examine the facts. If a theory does not fit the facts, then the theory is wrong.

(You don't need an Honours Degree in Physics to understand simple logic)..

Cold winter in UK is 0C but here cold is -30C.

Why I heat my hives on spring? When brooding starts, nights are often -6 or -8 C. A colony can keep bigger brood area warm.

If temps are 2 months continuously -20C , bee cluster cannot re organize itself . Many seems has short of food, and when food is finish in the seem, those bees die. Colony can loose 30% of its bees that way.

Cold surely kills bees everywhere. Why then we talk about "winter losses"?

.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Nothing.
In old money, a farthing was half of a half-penny (or a quarter of a penny).

Now, without looking it up, what does £.s.d. actually stand for? (you either know this, or, you don't)

Librae soldii Denarii

I was still at school when we changed currency...

I'd not long left bag dad

 

[user 6228]

Farrer did this in a manner of speaking by putting screen wire around a colony with nothing but a roof to keep the rain off. They wintered successfully and were a productive colony the next year.

Bees need a lot of water, especially when they are raising brood. Where does that water come from in winter when they can't forage? Honey typically contains about 17% water. This is nowhere near enough to meet winter needs. Sugar metabolizes into water plus carbon dioxide. 1 - C6H12O6 sugar combines with 6 - O2 oxygen to produce 6 - CO2 + 6 H2O + energy released. That H2O is water which the bees need for brood rearing. What happens if the interior of the hive is too warm? The bees do not metabolize enough honey resulting in a shortage of water for brood rearing. What conditions produce too much warmth in the brood nest mid-winter? If the cluster is too large with too many bees, then the thermal efficiency restricts metabolism of honey and therefore reduces the amount of water available for brood rearing. What if the hive is too well insulated? Then the thermal efficiency does the same resulting in too little water. Do you think putting a heater in the hive would do the same thing? Yes, it has to. To get around this conundrum, either provide the bees with water in the hive during winter or else keep the thermal efficiency low enough that the bees metabolize enough honey to have water for brood rearing. What about wintering indoors? Keep the humidity about 60 to 65% and temperature about 6C all winter long and the bees will produce enough water. Do you see the issue now? Wintering in a humid climate does not as readily cause problems with moisture as it does where cool and dry conditions prevail.

I am not the originator of this information, see the articles by Mobus in the July and August 1998 issues of American Bee Journal.

Are these the articles where he puts insulation on then off all through the winter?

 

[Finman]

I read somewhere that clustering behaviour in Bees probably developed in the Himalayas (not really tropical there)

Apis mellifera has never been on Himalaya.
..
.

 

[REDWOOD]

I can remember going through decimalisation in school and reciting a poem about Decimal Dotty, i'm not sure how this has got anything to do with matchsticks though but it sounds a more plausible subject to be talking about.